Bullying in schools, what can be done?

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by Sly

No one deserves to be bullied, but the person who I watched get bullied, I had no sympathy for nor I wanted to help him.



So you think being bullied as a child is on the same level to being molested as a child? OK....................

Why not? Seriously. What were you thinking? That he needed to fight his own battles. How far did the bullying go? Just some teasing or was it a physical thing.

We don't need to get involved with all bullying that we see. But maybe sometimes.

I used to play hockey with this guy. He was just a big idiot. He would bully people. Nothing too bad. I stayed out of it until one night at a party. He decided to beat the kid up. It didn't last long. The kid had enough. That was when I stepped in. It didn't take much. I simply said I think he has had enough. The bully looks up at me ready to take me on until he sees who is standing in front of him. Somebody he couldn't bully.

[Sly]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Why not? Seriously. What were you thinking? That he needed to fight his own battles. How far did the bullying go? Just some teasing or was it a physical thing.

We don't need to get involved with all bullying that we see. But maybe sometimes.

I used to play hockey with this guy. He was just a big idiot. He would bully people. Nothing too bad. I stayed out of it until one night at a party. He decided to beat the kid up. It didn't last long. The kid had enough. That was when I stepped in. It didn't take much. I simply said I think he has had enough. The bully looks up at me ready to take me on until he sees who is standing in front of him. Somebody he couldn't bully.

Bully getting bullied. That is why.

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by Sly

No one deserves to be bullied, but the person who I watched get bullied, I had no sympathy for nor I wanted to help him.



So you think being bullied as a child is on the same level to being molested as a child? OK....................

Uhhh....who compared getting bullied to being molested?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by photon

It is? It's easier to train hundreds of kids from every background and every temperament than it is to deal with one bully? Sure.

Photon, you know damn well there is more than one bully on the playground.

Teachers teach kids "from every background and every temperament" to do math, english, science etc.

They can't teach kids how to deal with bullying, or adversity in general?
The kids own parents can't teach them that?

Sure.
Brilliant.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by photon

Putting "frankly" in front of a comment usually would lead one to believe that you mean the comment frankly, not sarcastically.

Should we ask how many others thought "Frankly, if your kid is completely unable to deal with adversity then they should be home schooled...." was sarcastic and how many thought you were serious? Sounds like backpedaling...

Go ahead and conduct a survey if you must....but FRANKLY I don't really care.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by photon

Of course not, just like there will always be violent crime. But neither should be tolerated either.

Well I guess this is the fundamental difference between us on this issue.

You like to rely on an outside source like our legal system or the police to protect you from harm. Yeah.... lets add more rules that the bullies will simply break time and time again.....
I on the other hand, prefer to rely on nobody but myself....because sometimes the cops and laws won't be there on time to save you.

The kids need to learn to stand up to a bully first and foremost. I think this alone would reduce bullying by quite a bit. If bullying goes to the extreme however, then it is time for the parents and maybe the police to step in.

Education can make a world of difference.

[IliketoPuck]

That's pretty much my stance on it too.

If a kid stands up to a bully, and it stops there that's perfect, and the ideal situation.

If it goes beyond that to the point of serious physical harm, then obviously a child is not equipped to deal with that, and authorities (school, police, etc.) should be brought in.

But if a kid can stick up for himself, it will teach them an invaluable lesson in life about self worth and confidence.

[HOZ]

Well a lot of people are talking as though the bullies are all 250 pound muscle heads. When in fact, bullies today are more likely holding a phone in their hand and are 140 weaklings.

I know someone mentioned girls. Yes they are the worst of the lots. Girls may not be as numerous a the boy bullies but they are by far the most vicious and tenacious.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well I guess this is the fundamental difference between us on this issue.

You like to rely on an outside source like our legal system or the police to protect you from harm. Yeah.... lets add more rules that the bullies will simply break time and time again.....
I on the other hand, prefer to rely on nobody but myself....because sometimes the cops and laws won't be there on time to save you.

The kids need to learn to stand up to a bully first and foremost. I think this alone would reduce bullying by quite a bit. If bullying goes to the extreme however, then it is time for the parents and maybe the police to step in.

Education can make a world of difference.

Yeah, right. My little daughter was in Grade 1, being kicked by a big boy in Grade 4.

You are in dreamland if you think you could tell my daughter "just stand up for yourself, the situation will resolve itself".

It the schools can't resolve these situations in most cases these days and the parents can't resolve the situations in most cases these days, why do you think the child being bullied can resolve that situation.

And better yet, ask yourself "Why we are suggesting that those being bullied should just resolve the issue. AND, why are we leaving it up to our young children to try and do so?"

The emphasis has to be put on the bully, not the victim. The bully has to be told to shape up or ship out. Your behaviour is not condoned nor wanted here.

[IliketoPuck]

I think what he is saying, actually supports your theory.

That situation was clearly beyond your little girl's ability to control, and consequently needed police/school/parental intervention.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I think what he is saying, actually supports your theory.

That situation was clearly beyond your little girl's ability to control, and consequently needed police/school/parental intervention.

Perhaps, but when you ask the victim of bullying to take some control of the situation and face them, it is almost like telling that child that they are partially responsible for the situation in the first place. I don't agree with that line of thinking.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

Yes, it is, but in my opinion, the person you are mentioning in terms of lashing out by insulting others is the bully, not the bullied.

Before I say this highly controversial statement, I want to preface by saying that I am more in your camp and am actually trying to address Sly's position.

What if the kid in question (the "bully" as you put it) was being brutally sexually assaulted? Maybe by a parent, or say a babysitter or something? I would argue that a rational adult would be able to correctly appraise and contextualize the situation.

This was just one example. It could be anything. Drug addict/abusive parents, older siblings/"peers", true deep-rooted psychological disorder...

I was trying to illustrate that aside from the cliche, prototypical bully, there are many many layers.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by redforever

Perhaps, but when you ask the victim of bullying to take some control of the situation and face them, it is almost like telling that child that they are partially responsible for the situation in the first place. I don't agree with that line of thinking.

I'm with you on that one, and your situation is more extreme than a simple case of verbal or minor physical abuse.

What I was advocating earlier is that if it is possible for your child to stick up for themselves, without undue risk, they should. If it is a case like your daughter's, or more serious mental or physical abuse, I completely agree with bringing in outside intervention.

[Kybosh]

Standing up for yourself is all well and good if you are being bullied by a physical person but let me paint another scenario. What if you face a constant barrage of demeaning text messages and emails. What if someone takes over your social networking account and does with it as they please? What if someone photoshops your face in a variety of embarrassing pictures and posts them to the whole school? These are all examples of cyberbullying, which is more common than many people in this thread seem to realize.

How do you teach kids to to stand up to something that isn't actually there? Also, if the bullying is something of this nature do you also solve it by giving someone a "whoopin'"?

[photon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Photon, you know damn well there is more than one bully on the playground.

Irrelevant, unless you mean to say the bullies outnumber the kids.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Teachers teach kids "from every background and every temperament" to do math, english, science etc.

And if it is so easy to teach kids how to deal with bullies there wouldn't be kids killing themselves so often over it, there's already lots of resources dedicated to the problem (though obviously not enough).

Teaching a kid to pass a math test is worlds different than teaching a kid to deal with a bully. Adults in a forum can't even agree on the best course of action, and each situation is vastly different. The ability to deal with complex and emotionally charged situations is something it takes decades to learn in the first place (if people do at all), expecting a child to be up to it is completely unreasonable. If it comes out as a learning experience and the child is able to overcome that's great, but not every situation is like that.

If Billy fails a math test he gets a bad grade or fails a grade. If Billy doesn't learn the lesson to stand up for himself he kills himself. Slightly different.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

They can't teach kids how to deal with bullying, or adversity in general?
The kids own parents can't teach them that?

Sure.
Brilliant.

If you read what I said I didn't say anything like that. In fact I advocated it.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Go ahead and conduct a survey if you must....but FRANKLY I don't really care.

If you don't care if people understand what you are saying or not, why post at all?

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Well I guess this is the fundamental difference between us on this issue.

You like to rely on an outside source like our legal system or the police to protect you from harm. Yeah.... lets add more rules that the bullies will simply break time and time again.....
I on the other hand, prefer to rely on nobody but myself....because sometimes the cops and laws won't be there on time to save you.

Making things up to reply to.. that's called a straw man.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

The kids need to learn to stand up to a bully first and foremost. I think this alone would reduce bullying by quite a bit. If bullying goes to the extreme however, then it is time for the parents and maybe the police to step in.

In all those cases where kids that got killed or killed themselves there must have been a time where it's obvious and someone should have stepped in and they didn't because.. why exactly?

Given an ideal circumstance and complete knowledge of what's going on you are right, but almost always you have neither.

Yes educate the children, yes teach them to stand up for themselves, all those things, but for those that don't learn right away, for ones that are slow on the uptake, for ones dealing with bullying situations far in excess of what is reasonable for a child to deal with, you also have to address the actual problem, which is the bully (the bully's parents and/or circumstances actually).

[Devils'Advocate]

Another bullying story:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/saskatchewa...n-lawsuit.html

I think the kid's a big loser. Won't stand up to the other kids. Better he stand up and punch these guys and lose than to continue being bullied. I say the kid deserves everything he gets since he has it coming to him. He should beat those kids up. It doesn't matter that he is younger, smaller, disabled and OUTNUMBERED he should still beat them up.

[Sample00]

Until people see that a paradigm shift is required to change the culture of a school, nothing will change. Teachers included.

you can bring in anti-bully program after anti-bully program and they all do the same thing, "tell them not to bully".

People have to want change and see that is possible to make a difference, programs like Challenge Day are life changin experiences that are expensive but will change the culture of the school. The programs are expensive but they are possible when the community comes together as one to want to make the change and to make the change possible.

Partnering with other schools, media outlets, local police and youth groups will help foster a community wide change.

My wife's school averaged 400-500 suspensions per year in the past. By making these changes, her school is now at 45 to date.

This process can work but it requires a total community by in and a willingness to want to make the change.

You cant have the excuses that boys will be boys or this is always how we dealt with it. You need to want to cause a total mindset change with this.

http://www.thefoxradio.ca/index.asp?mn=7&id=952&cc=7

[ma-skis.com]

bullying is too broad of a statement, the fact that it gets to bullying means someone screwed up already somewhere along the line.

Schools shouldn't be the ones who have to get involved, parents do.

[bcb]

Regarding Cyberbullying, this is probably the most prevalent type found among high school and even Jr. high kids, nowadays. I believe Calgary School districts will be implementing (or have implemented) a mandatory course on proper use of technology. Most kids do not know proper internet or cellphone etiquette. This would be the best way to prevent bullying online. Obviously, enforcement is an issue, as school personnel can't spend their free time combing the internet, looking for infractions.

While physical confrontation may be an issue occasionally, walk into any Jr. or Sr. high school, and you'll see students are extremely respectful toward each other. Of course, that doesn't stop nasty stuff from getting posted online...

For all those who advocated beating up a bully, it might work; however, what are you really teaching you children? You can solve any problem with violence?

I can see why a principal might suspend a retaliating student. The last thing any school wants is for kids to be punching each other and serving vigilante justice anytime someone crosses them.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

If I were you I would tell your kid he did the right thing in punching the other kid.

If the school decides to go further then you take it to the school board or local news papers.

Nothing shuts up public employees on a power trip like the local news.

Can I make the bold assumption that you're the type to write the Prime Minister's Office when the neighbor's dog craps on your lawn?

As for your knock on public employees, it's great to know that ritzy private schools have NO bullying whatsoever.