Confederate Flag

[Traditional_Ale]

^ If I had arms like that I wouldn't need the gun.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

And the Swastika represents groundedness and goodness. But that is not how the general population recognize it.

Are you comparing the CSA to the Third Reich?

[starseed]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Are you comparing the CSA to the Third Reich?

Obviously it is apples and oranges.

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner–stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery — subordination to the superior race — is his natural and normal condition.

^the vice-president of the CSA. Say what you want about the civil war having little to do with slavery, but when you look into the reasoning and basis that caused these people to hate Nothern domination, racism is found more often than not. Lincoln may have toned down the call for the end to slavery, but it was his ultimate goal, and the South knew it.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by starseed

Obviously it is apples and oranges.



^the vice-president of the CSA. Say what you want about the civil war having little to do with slavery, but when you look into the reasoning and basis that caused these people to hate Nothern domination, racism is found more often than not. Lincoln may have toned down the call for the end to slavery, but it was his ultimate goal, and the South knew it.

Please. Until the Emancipation Proclamation the American Civil War was States' Rights. Slavery was the trigger issue in the conflict to define Federalism in America, very much like how Heath Care is a bone of contention between the Provinces and our Federal Government. I wouldn't say the war had 'little' to do with Slavery, but I think to frame it as morel crusade is a fallacy. Hell you had slate states fighting for the Union. And the Emancipation Proclamation only 'ended' Slavery in those States in rebellion.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

This is what I was trying to say. He's lived there for 15 years, they know the guy, they know he runs a business that brings in the tourist dollars. It's the way it works in Tanzania. he said it doesn't matter than he speaks fluent Swahili, or anything. he's white, he pays more than his African wife. That's just the way it is (dododo dododo dododo).

We're getting off the original topic though and she take this off line.

But the same thing happens in markets in every country I've visited in the FSU - Russia, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Kyrgyzstan. It's not about the colour of your skin. Its about your (relative) wealth. It's not racism, or even discrimination. It's capitalisim!

I'm curious how much the 200 shillings you used as an example was worth in CAD$? $1? $.50? $.25? It seemed to make quite an impression on you.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

Are you comparing the CSA to the Third Reich?

No, I'm comparing how the original symbolism has been corrupted.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by CrusaderPi

This is an important and easily forgotten point. The CSA made overtures to receptive representatives in Paris and London for support in the war against the North. Both European governments diplomatically told the South slavery would have to be abolished eventually.

On come on - both of you - with the "the South would have abolished it eventually" argument. In the theory perhaps, but in practice? Blacks were systematically discriminated against in the South for the next 100 years. Segregation was a fact of life. Hell, Alabama had to be forced to admit Blacks in their schools less than 50 years ago!

Don't pretend South was so enlightened.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

On come on - both of you - with the "the South would have abolished it eventually" argument. In the theory perhaps, but in practice? Blacks were systematically discriminated against in the South for the next 100 years. Segregation was a fact of life. Hell, Alabama had to be forced to admit Blacks in their schools less than 50 years ago!

Don't pretend South was so enlightened.

Yeah, you could say the same thing about the north.

How many blacks struggled for YEARS to be accepted by the general population after the civil war ended?

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Azure

Great post.

Well thanks; the Civil War is one of my favorite historical subjects, so I always feel I should chip in on the rare occasions it gets brought up. It is perhaps the most stark example of how the agrarian power of landowners was broken by the new power of the industrialists and capitalists; a violent realignment that allowed many of our modern attitudes and social structures to develop.

I personally think the symbolism of the Confederacy exerts such a pull for three reasons: one, it fought against unwanted change and for an ancient concept of class that still fascinates many today; two, despite being terribly overmatched in almost every material and advantage of war, it nearly managed to win; three, its war destroyed what it hoped to save and thus we are relieved from the burden of admiring men like Lee or Jackson as victors in the cause of slavery, but can instead see them as men who did what they saw as their duty, and did it brilliantly.

Whether or not such thoughts go through the mind of someone with a rebel flag in the back of his truck, I don't know and somehow doubt, however. I suspect it's more of a lame attempt to come across as a "rebel" without understanding what exactly one is rebelling against.