Ann Coulter on teachers

[RedHot25]

Perhaps these two are related Dess, just a thought.

Originally Posted by DESS

Why would you think I am kidding or being a troll?

Originally Posted by DESS

for my tone in past posts.

[DESS]

I don't think a strong or even venomous tone is evidence of trolling.

Bent - I imagine your dad would have then been a workaholic no matter what job he had. That kind of a time commitment is not something that is required of teachers. If they enjoy spending their free time enriching themselves and their students as a result, that is wonderful. Again, a lot of people give more than what is required of them to their jobs, but it is not something taxpayers should be expected to compensate them for. I would expect the appreciation they receive from their students is gratitude/compensation enough. If not I don't see why else they would do it.

I really need to find a job like the ones you guys all seem to have. The law allows for two weeks off a year for the first five years of employment, topping out at three weeks off a year after five years with the same employer. I believe more than 50% of jobs in Calgary only provide the minimum time off. If anybody could find a stat on this, it would be interesting. I'm not sure where one would go to look.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by DESS

venomous tone is evidence of trolling.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/venomous

full of venom: as a: poisonous , envenomed b: noxious , pernicious <expose a venomous dope ring — Don Porter> c: spiteful , malevolent


My 2 cents - I think there are good apples in teaching, and there are some unfortunate bad apples in teaching. Just like any other job or profession (including whatever it is that you do, Dess).

That said, I don't think you can do this over-generalization of things to apply to all teachers. I don't get it. Different context, different situations. And its difficult to compare jobs/professions to each other. One has one benefit, the other a different one; same with drawbacks.

[V]

Originally Posted by DESS

That kind of a time commitment is not something that is required of teachers.

While Bent's example is pretty excessive, I think it's become quite obvious by now that you have no idea just how much time is required of a competent teacher. Your idea of 3 months off is a pretty glaring example.

Again, a lot of people give more than what is required of them to their jobs, but it is not something taxpayers should be expected to compensate them for.

I haven't worked in every industry, but I have yet to see a union position that doesn't pay more than straight time for overtime. Free overtime is unheard of in the union.

I really need to find a job like the ones you guys all seem to have. The law allows for two weeks off a year for the first five years of employment, topping out at three weeks off a year after five years with the same employer.

I used to be a sucker too, working 80 hour weeks and getting 2 weeks off. I decided to change companies and found a spot where I could make 25% more, work 40 hour weeks and get 6 weeks off. That's the joy of the corporate world. If you don't like where you are it's pretty easy to make a change. I don't understand why you're whining about your hours if you have the ability to change things. Not to mention the fact that you knew what you were getting into when you started, didn't you?

Originally Posted by DESS

I don't think a strong or even venomous tone is evidence of trolling.

Bent - I imagine your dad would have then been a workaholic no matter what job he had. That kind of a time commitment is not something that is required of teachers. If they enjoy spending their free time enriching themselves and their students as a result, that is wonderful. Again, a lot of people give more than what is required of them to their jobs, but it is not something taxpayers should be expected to compensate them for. I would expect the appreciation they receive from their students is gratitude/compensation enough. If not I don't see why else they would do it.

I really need to find a job like the ones you guys all seem to have. The law allows for two weeks off a year for the first five years of employment, topping out at three weeks off a year after five years with the same employer. I believe more than 50% of jobs in Calgary only provide the minimum time off. If anybody could find a stat on this, it would be interesting. I'm not sure where one would go to look.

But I think that's the point everyone is trying to make- my parents represented the everyday teacher (although I will admit, my dad probably put in too much time). In order to be a functioning, effective teacher, you have to put extra time in- and in my opinion, more than a lot of other professions.

Your whole argument is based on this 'part-time' job idea- but that is simply not the case. Teaching time is not equivalent to the time they actually put in.

You didn't answer the question though, what do you do?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by DESS

Why would you think I am kidding or being a troll?

Because your position in nearly every thread you post in seems to be conceived to get the maximum response out of people. Your position always seems to be based on random or totally nonsensical data, and once you take a position you focus on with blinders.

There are many posters on this board who I disagree with, and a couple I think are not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I have yet to come across one who acted like you, who was not a troll. If you are not and truly believe the things you are saying and actually think you are making a logical argument, then I am sorry for the accusation. However, you probably should realize that you posts tend to come across as anything but well thought out or logical.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Just curious Dess, what do you do?

Yes, please tell us DESS. It will help us understanding where you're coming from.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by kermitology

In three years as an engineer, I am making approximately what my mother, a PhD teaching English in the CBE took 35 years to make.

She just recently retired. I can't believe some of the statements being made here. I can personally attest to seeing my mother getting home at 5, making supper, and then marking until 9 when she went to bed.

Spring break, she was marking and doing report cards. Continual education, lesson planning, UNDERSTANDING your material so you can teach it to others.. Teachers get a raw deal. If I had to deal with 35 high-school aged kids for 6-8 hours a day I'd go mental.

Totally agree...I think teachers get an incredibly raw deal. Partly because I believe that their jobs are my own personal hell, and furthermore, after living in that hell for years and years on end they get zero credit for doing it.

Its like when a guy gets wrongfully imprisoned for 30 years and then when he gets out society kind of pats him on the back, says they're sorry and gives him some sort of book deal or puts him on the talk show circuit.

Teachers get kicked in the nuts, they do their time and then when they get out society goes up to them and says: hey, whats your damn problem?

I deal with 15 high school/jr high aged kids for 3 hours a week and I am slowly going mental. If you locked me in a room with them for 6-8 hours even once I'd probably come out carrying a knife and soaking in blood.

Kids, teenagers in particular, are a wildly irrational bunch, they make foolish choices that endanger themselves and everyone around them and they dont particularly care. They have eyes like sharks that show no remorse for their actions, they're like animals. They are menaces to society at large and should be quarantined in some sort of prison-like facility until they've matured to the point where they are no longer harmful to those around them.

Oh wait. They are quarantined in prison-like facilities until they're mature enough not to stick forks in their own eyes. They're called schools, and the hardened, grizzled wardens charged with the care of these violent, psychotic criminals-in-waiting are fresh-faced young adults who have just graduated from college a couple years ago with a degree and a Bachelors of Education.

They get no billy clubs or pepper spray, not even a little taser, nothing. They're given a bunch of textbooks and, if they're one of the lucky ones, a ruler, and they're expected to tame this wild group.

Also, Ann Coulter on teachers? I wont believe it until I see a picture of Ann Coulter riding a teacher.

That joke at the end doesnt jive with the rest of my post, but its what I originally ventured in here to post and then I got carried away with my rant. Make no mistake, I hated most of my teachers, and I strongly dislike most of my profs, but that doesnt mean you cant respect the work they do.

[tanguay'sstillgood]

DESS, the fact that you are continuing to make things up and refusing to acknowledge the facts blows me away. This is why people think you are trolling. You came in here with a skewed view of a job you don't understand, and after it has been shown that you are wrong you won't concede that maybe the people who actually do know about the job may have a better idea what is happening when a teacher is working. I feel like I'm listening to a Creationist, the way you ignore evidence is identical to theirs.

Can you explain this 'part time employees' thing? I mean in detail...actually explain it. We have given numerous example of teachers working 10-12 hours/day, so I would like to hear how this is part time. And don't give us the 'they work 9-3' thing, because the overwhelming majority do not work like that. If you need a refresher, please see my earlier post where I calculated it. You know, the post with the numbers you have completely ignored because they don't fit in with your argument. You still haven;t even realized that teachers work extra in the 10 months school is in that makes up for the 2 months it's out.

Something else...none of the teachers in here have been bitching about being paid poorly. In fact, a few of us have said we are happy with the salary we get, but again, you ignore this because it doesn't fit your argument. But, if you want teachers to be paid according to years of schooling etc, I don't think we are paid as well as most people who have a minimum of 2 degrees and have 6 years of post-secondary. You said you would like to pay teachers as they do in the private sector, based on school, responsibility, hours worked, etc., but you really have no clue about any of those things. You are just plain ignorant about it.

It would be fantastic for society if teaching were such an easy, overly rewarded job as you make it out to be. Think about it...everybody would want to be a teacher. Universities could choose their students from massive applicant pools, only accepting the best of the best. After that, there would be a surplus of teachers sitting around waiting for school interviews because, again, principals could be so picky about who they hire. More competition for these easy jobs would help weed out all us lazy teachers who are here because we get (apparently in your eyes) 16 weeks off.

PS. Folks, he isn't going to tell us what he does. He has been asked many times now and just continues to ignore the question.

[fatso]

I'd like to hear what Dess does as well. After denigrating people who go to school in their 30s and now teachers, I'd like to find out what job he has that is so monetarily rewarding it trumps all other personal interests and concerns.

[peter12]

I do think that stereotypes towards teachers are pretty silly. However, my main complaint is the complete lack of meritocracy in the public school system. Even academia has the tenure process and different ranks of professorships (is that even a word) available for profs who get good teacher rankings and who publish frequently.

Why can't bad teachers be weeded out and good teachers be rewarded? I agree that there are quite a few good teachers, but I think there are alot of mediocre/terrible teachers who get into it because it is an easy job to slack off at when you want to. I have no doubt that everyone hear who has a story of a friend or relative who is a teacher that works their butt off and gets nothing extra for it is absolutely on the money. Those teachers are overworked and don't get any extra hand-up, but I can tell from personal experience that for everyone of those teachers there is another slacker who gets paid the same and gets the same vacation time.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by fatso

I'd like to hear what Dess does as well.

He doesn't need to reveal any personal information about what he does. I have no clue how he has formed his opinions of teachers because they are a little out there, but we don't need to pressure people to reveal private information about themselves.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

He doesn't need to reveal any personal information about what he does. I have no clue how he has formed his opinions of teachers because they are a little out there, but we don't need to pressure people to reveal private information about themselves.

I disagree. If a poster is going to publicly trash a profession with outlandish generalizations i think we as members have a right to know said poster does for a living.

Personaly i find his posts offensive and insulting.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Dion

I disagree. If a poster is going to publicly trash a profession with outlandish generalizations i think we as members have a right to know said poster does for a living.

Personaly i find his posts offensive and insulting.

He doesn't need to post what he does if he doesn't want to. But by not doing so no one should give him any credit into what he is saying. Not that anyone is but Jiri does have a point.

I agree with you last sentence however.

[myst]

Alright hold on now.
Ann Coulter is an idiot but I think she is kinda right on this one.

In high school for example, teachers teach 3 blocks a day - about 1hr30min each block for a total of 4hr30min every day. They get one block 'prep time' where they have time to prepare lectures or finish up marking or whatever. The first class starts at 9am, the last class ends at 4pm. They get an hour lunch. One day of the week is usually 'early dismissal' where classes are 3/4ths as long as they normally are. It is absolute nonsense that teachers are overworked. They literally work for 4hr30min a day. They get a nice winter break and a 2 month long summer break. All paid of course. (see http://www.ahsrockets.org/images/pro...h_schedule.gif for what a typical schedule for a student looks like)

The time spent on 'preparing lectures' is a bunch of nonsense. Most teachers have to do this ONCE and they can reuse their work time and time again for years (with minor adjustments).

The time spent on 'marking' is a bunch of nonsense too. When you teach 4hr30min a day, you have a lot of time on your hands that you can use for marking. And in my classes the teachers wouldnt even mark many of the assignments themselves. They would either do a walk around the classroom and give 'completion' marks, or have students themselves mark the assignments ('everyone pass your math assignment to the person behind you..').

Teachers have one of the cushiest jobs in the world. Unbelievable that they would think otherwise.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by myst

Alright hold on now.
Ann Coulter is an idiot but I think she is kinda right on this one.

In high school for example, teachers teach 3 blocks a day - about 1hr30min each block for a total of 4hr30min every day. They get one block 'prep time' where they have time to prepare lectures or finish up marking or whatever. The first class starts at 9am, the last class ends at 4pm. They get an hour lunch. One day of the week is usually 'early dismissal' where classes are 3/4ths as long as they normally are. It is absolute nonsense that teachers are overworked. They literally work for 4hr30min a day. They get a nice winter break and a 2 month long summer break. All paid of course. (see http://www.ahsrockets.org/images/pro...h_schedule.gif for what a typical schedule for a student looks like)

The time spent on 'preparing lectures' is a bunch of nonsense. Most teachers have to do this ONCE and they can reuse their work time and time again for years (with minor adjustments).

The time spent on 'marking' is a bunch of nonsense too. When you teach 4hr30min a day, you have a lot of time on your hands that you can use for marking. And in my classes the teachers wouldnt even mark many of the assignments themselves. They would either do a walk around the classroom and give 'completion' marks, or have students themselves mark the assignments ('everyone pass your math assignment to the person behind you..').

Teachers have one of the cushiest jobs in the world. Unbelievable that they would think otherwise.

Dess, you don't have to make a new handle to try and throw everyone off on who you actually are.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by myst

Alright hold on now.
Ann Coulter is an idiot but I think she is kinda right on this one.

In high school for example, teachers teach 3 blocks a day - about 1hr30min each block for a total of 4hr30min every day. They get one block 'prep time' where they have time to prepare lectures or finish up marking or whatever. The first class starts at 9am, the last class ends at 4pm. They get an hour lunch. One day of the week is usually 'early dismissal' where classes are 3/4ths as long as they normally are. It is absolute nonsense that teachers are overworked. They literally work for 4hr30min a day. They get a nice winter break and a 2 month long summer break. All paid of course. (see http://www.ahsrockets.org/images/pro...h_schedule.gif for what a typical schedule for a student looks like)

The time spent on 'preparing lectures' is a bunch of nonsense. Most teachers have to do this ONCE and they can reuse their work time and time again for years (with minor adjustments).

The time spent on 'marking' is a bunch of nonsense too. When you teach 4hr30min a day, you have a lot of time on your hands that you can use for marking. And in my classes the teachers wouldnt even mark many of the assignments themselves. They would either do a walk around the classroom and give 'completion' marks, or have students themselves mark the assignments ('everyone pass your math assignment to the person behind you..').

Teachers have one of the cushiest jobs in the world. Unbelievable that they would think otherwise.

You're the idiot if after reading 9 pages of this thread you honestly believe what you've written. Did you bother reading any of the posts arguing why teaching isn't a cushy job?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by myst

In high school for example, teachers teach 3 blocks a day - about 1hr30min each block for a total of 4hr30min every day. They get one block 'prep time' where they have time to prepare lectures or finish up marking or whatever. The first class starts at 9am, the last class ends at 4pm. They get an hour lunch.One day of the week is usually 'early dismissal' where classes are 3/4ths as long as they normally are. It is absolute nonsense that teachers are overworked. They literally work for 4hr30min a day.

I don't know about you, but if I am at work, doing things FOR work, I consider it work. Even if they walk in and out of the school at the exact same time that a student does, by no stretch of the imagination could you consider a teachers day to be less than 6-7 hours.

Since I do realize that planning lessons, marking and required extracurricular activities can't all be crammed into that hour and a half spare that these people get, I think 6-7 hours is the bare minimum that you could spend.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by peter12

I do think that stereotypes towards teachers are pretty silly. However, my main complaint is the complete lack of meritocracy in the public school system. Even academia has the tenure process and different ranks of professorships (is that even a word) available for profs who get good teacher rankings and who publish frequently.

Why can't bad teachers be weeded out and good teachers be rewarded? I agree that there are quite a few good teachers, but I think there are alot of mediocre/terrible teachers who get into it because it is an easy job to slack off at when you want to. I have no doubt that everyone hear who has a story of a friend or relative who is a teacher that works their butt off and gets nothing extra for it is absolutely on the money. Those teachers are overworked and don't get any extra hand-up, but I can tell from personal experience that for everyone of those teachers there is another slacker who gets paid the same and gets the same vacation time.

Union, simple as that. The bad teachers get floated around from one school to another, unless they commit some gross misconduct like sexual exploitation of one of their students.

It is the union that takes away the teaching certificate of the individual teacher, not the province that gave the certificate to that teacher.

[myst]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

You're the idiot if after reading 9 pages of this thread you honestly believe what you've written. Did you bother reading any of the posts arguing why teaching isn't a cushy job?

I honestly believe what I have written. And yes I did read it all