Flames and Canucks in on Rossi?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Rossi plays with a bit of jam for his size. His skating isn't elite though, but he is 23 still. I could see a 70–80-point guy here and adding him now does allow us to lock him in before the cap goes way up and so do future RFA contracts.

He's had 40 and 60 points his last two seasons playing with much better linemates than he'll have in Calgary.

70-80 point seems a long way off.

Plus his contract demands is scaring off Minny.

He is young though, and it seems like a typical Calagry trade to try and stay competitive.

I just don't see it as a means to becoming a contender.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

He's had 40 and 60 points his last two seasons playing with much better linemates than he'll have in Calgary.

70-80 point seems a long way off.

Plus his contract demands is scaring off Minny.

He is young though, and it seems like a typical Calagry trade to try and stay competitive.

I just don't see it as a means to becoming a contender.

He’d be a fine gamble as #2C. Flames are still missing an actual #1C and no prospects to fill it either.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

Rossi and Boldy also had good number away from both Zuc and Kap. Rossi had good numbers away from Boldy, Zuc and Kap.

You could make a case that there was a Kap bump, but the weak link at this point in his career is Zuc.

Playoffs are a small sample size and Tkachuk was a guy that sucked in the playoffs here, goes to Florida and figures it out. He's 23, lots of 23-year-olds struggle in the playoffs.

Fair point, and I'm not against Rossi per se. I just hope that the Flames do their due diligence, so that we don't do what BOS did with Lindholm and sign a 45-50P guy to $7-8M long term.

PS: I didn't watch nearly enough MIN games to actually have an opinion on Rossi this year, so I just go off of numbers.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Rossi would be a perfect 2C for this group. We are missing a young 1C and 2C. Kadri would still be the 1C stopgap while we figure that out. Rossi isn't an old guy either. A 7-8 year deal would be perfect with a 7-8m AAV while the cap goes up. If the price is right, it's a no brainer.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Acquiring Rossi goes against the trend towards building a bigger team that’s hard to play against. We’ve talked about how the drafting strategy of picking bigger skilled players. Rossi is skilled. Big he is not.

We talk about the age range that we are looking for. But believe we are also looking for bigger players as well. Rossi would be our smallest centerman. I believe conroy has a plan and will stick to it. Easy to get caught up in the hype of a player like Rossi being available, but doesn’t fit the profile of the type of player we are looking for (apart from being a young C).

You don't need to be big to be hard to play against.

Marchand has been a prime example of this.



And it's not like Rossi is Matthew Phillips small. He's around ~200 Lbs.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Was going by these...

His production fell off a cliff. And interestingly, it was almost identical to Frost's numbers in Calgary (12 pts in 32 games)

Correlation =/= causation. His numbers fell but he wasn’t playing primarily with Kaprisov before that anyway, so not having Kaprisov on his line is not the reason they fell.

[GioforPM]

Rossi pretty much sply his time with Kaprizov and Boldy. And he got 19 ES points with Kaprizov and 21 with Boldy, so there's not much to pick from there.

Question - why was he on the 4th line in the POs?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Rossi pretty much sply his time with Kaprizov and Boldy. And he got 19 ES points with Kaprizov and 21 with Boldy, so there's not much to pick from there.

Question - why was he on the 4th line in the POs?

I have seen that some Wild fans think it was Guerin trying to drive down his value in negotiations by minimizing his impact but I don't accept that any GM would sabotage their playoffs or that a head coach would agree to do that. I have to assume that it's as simple as him being in Hynes doghouse for some reason.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by traptor

You don't need to be big to be hard to play against.

Marchand has been a prime example of this.



And it's not like Rossi is Matthew Phillips small. He's around ~200 Lbs.

I haven't seen anywhere putting Rossi at 200lbs, all the estimates seem to be around 182-192lbs. That being said, 5'9'' and 190 lbs can be a lot harder to play against than 6'2'' and 205lbs. Marchand, as you say, is a perfect example. This is hockey, where the puck is at actually below ground level, when you account for skates, not basketball with a hoop 10 feet in the air.

You also can't just look at stats. There are so many more factors involving body composition and strength that are more relevant to success in hockey than just a measurement of height and weight. There are guys who are 5'8'' and 180 lbs who can squat over 400 lbs. Dismissing them because they are a similar height to guys like Phillips is absurd.

Once again, I'm pretty high on Rossi. I don't see his size being an issue. If the Flames can land either him or Peterka, the rebuild would look a lot better instantly.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have seen that some Wild fans think it was Guerin trying to drive down his value in negotiations by minimizing his impact but I don't accept that any GM would sabotage their playoffs or that a head coach would agree to do that. I have to assume that it's as simple as him being in Hynes doghouse for some reason.

Sabotaging a team's playoff run to drive down contract prices would be an absolutely insane strategy, and I can't see any GM or owners doing that.

My guess is that the Wild wanted more intangibles from their centre group and decided to go with Hartman and Eriksson Ek instead of Rossi.

A lot of teams are probably watching Florida and moving away from more skilled players. Hopefully, the Flames can take advantage of that. The Flames have plenty of guys who are hard to play against and desperately need those more skilled guys.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by blankall

I haven't seen anywhere putting Rossi at 200lbs, all the estimates seem to be around 182-192lbs. That being said, 5'9'' and 190 lbs can be a lot harder to play against than 6'2'' and 205lbs. Marchand, as you say, is a perfect example. This is hockey, where the puck is at actually below ground level, when you account for skates, not basketball with a hoop 10 feet in the air.

You also can't just look at stats. There are so many more factors involving body composition and strength that are more relevant to success in hockey than just a measurement of height and weight. There are guys who are 5'8'' and 180 lbs who can squat over 400 lbs. Dismissing them because they are a similar height to guys like Phillips is absurd.

Once again, I'm pretty high on Rossi. I don't see his size being an issue. If the Flames can land either him or Peterka, the rebuild would look a lot better instantly.

Size (especiually height) isn't that big a deal for "hard to play against". Reach is a pretty big factor both on offence and defence, especially at centre or defenceman.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by traptor

You don't need to be big to be hard to play against.

Marchand has been a prime example of this.



And it's not like Rossi is Matthew Phillips small. He's around ~200 Lbs.

Marchand is a unicorn. Can’t compare Rossi to Marchand.

Coach sewered his value burying him on 4th line in playoffs. Sends teams interested a message.

[Paulie Walnuts]

All these question marks around a 2nd liner along with the team not interested in keeping him. Should given you pause in spending prime assets like a 1st rounder on him.

If you sign Frost you need to give him the opportunity to produce. Only so much ice time. Also don’t like the approach of trading for middle 6 guys that keep you out of drafting or drafting stars that can actually help you get over the hump and make noise.

Need our home grown talent to turn into those pieces and try to build from the top line down otherwise you’ll be stuck.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Rossi would be a perfect 2C for this group. We are missing a young 1C and 2C. Kadri would still be the 1C stopgap while we figure that out. Rossi isn't an old guy either. A 7-8 year deal would be perfect with a 7-8m AAV while the cap goes up. If the price is right, it's a no brainer.

You put him as the #2 centre and second line PP time, you'll be getting a 40-50 point guy making $8M.

[bdubbs]

No to Rossi. I'd rather the Flames try to draft their future #1C or 2C than throw away picks for a small center. The Flames need to start aiming higher than just making it into the playoffs and to do that we need size AND skill.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by blankall

I haven't seen anywhere putting Rossi at 200lbs, all the estimates seem to be around 182-192lbs. That being said, 5'9'' and 190 lbs can be a lot harder to play against than 6'2'' and 205lbs. Marchand, as you say, is a perfect example. This is hockey, where the puck is at actually below ground level, when you account for skates, not basketball with a hoop 10 feet in the air.

You also can't just look at stats. There are so many more factors involving body composition and strength that are more relevant to success in hockey than just a measurement of height and weight. There are guys who are 5'8'' and 180 lbs who can squat over 400 lbs. Dismissing them because they are a similar height to guys like Phillips is absurd.

Once again, I'm pretty high on Rossi. I don't see his size being an issue. If the Flames can land either him or Peterka, the rebuild would look a lot better instantly.

Is 400 lbs squat anything to write home about? I used to do single leg press 450 lbs when I was younger and played goalie more. Or did you mean 400 kilos?

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

No to Rossi. I'd rather the Flames try to draft their future #1C or 2C than throw away picks for a small center. The Flames need to start aiming higher than just making it into the playoffs and to do that we need size AND skill.

Rossi was drafted 9th overall 5 years ago, I don't think it's very likely we'll be getting a better player at #18(25% chance), or #32(5% chance). You could argue that a player on an ELC will be cheap for 1-3 seasons, but players are getting some pretty big 2nd contracts now(like Coronato at $6.5M, or Rossi himself).

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Rossi was drafted 9th overall 5 years ago, I don't think it's very likely we'll be getting a better player at #18(25% chance), or #32(5% chance). You could argue that a player on an ELC will be cheap for 1-3 seasons, but players are getting some pretty big 2nd contracts now(like Coronato at $6.5M, or Rossi himself).

I don't disagree with you. I just don't believe this upcoming draft is the be all end all for drafting that #1C. I'm also OK with drafting a #2 or #3C this draft and being bad next year so that we can draft our #1 next year or the year after.

[gvitaly]

^ I don't have a horse in the Rossi race, so I'm fine either way. Drafting a top 6 C with that pick is far from a guarantee.

Currently here are the top 9 centers in the NHL drafted at #18: Mercer
#19-22: Norris, Thomas, Shcmaltz, Eriksson Ek, Laughton, Chytil, Giroux

There are some very good names on the list but that's over the last 19 or so drafts.

As for the 2nd part I don't yet see a pathway towards sucking bad enough to get a top 5 or a top 10 pick next year.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I appreciate the extensive discourse on size mattering.

So insightful.