[Rumour] UPD: no deals for Flames before expansion draft roster freeze

[Nelson]

I think the Flames are gonna do something big at the draft.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I think the Flames are gonna do something big at the draft.

We say this every year. And then we're told the prices didn't make sense.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Locke

This team should be easily able to make the playoffs, but at the moment they can only do it if almost everything goes absolutely perfectly.

I wouldn't say that.

This team should be easily able to make the playoffs, and they only missed when a whole laundry list of things went perfectly wrong at the same time. The majority of those problems could have been corrected by doing the right things in practice, and now that they have a proper coach, I expect they will be.

When things went absolutely perfectly, they finished as the #1 seed in the Western Conference. That doesn't happen without Giordano, but the makings of a top-16 team are still there.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I think the Flames are gonna do something big at the draft.

Agreed. Something like trading down from 12th twice.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

We say this every year. And then we're told the prices didn't make sense.

Which is why the Flames never acquired Hamilton, and then never flipped him for Lindholm and Hanifin, amirite?

[Flashpoint]

Tre has had 7 years. It’s ok to feel frustrated and disappointed. I am too.

I see deals that didn’t come to fruition like Kadri as correct attempts hampered by Calgary’s staus as a 2nd tier NHL city. That isn’t his fault.

All that said, it took our best ever GM (Cliff Fletcher) 9 years to win a single playoff round. Until 1986 he won a total of 4 rounds from 1973 to 1985.

I think we have an experienced GM hampered by GM’ing a small market Canadian team. He’s made mistakes (mostly free agent signings and abysmal coaching hires) but he does seem more astute to me than the GM garbage in Edm or Van (thank god).

Hang tight, give some stability and lets see what shakes out with a flat cap.

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ experienced GM?

This is his first and only NHL GM job. His experience is basically driving this thing (into the ditch)

He cut his teeth as an AGM with the Coyotes, not my model franchise for outstanding achievement in the field of excellence

But I agree he is better than the lowest bar being set up north

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

^ experienced GM?

This is his first and only NHL GM job. His experience is basically driving this thing (into the ditch)

It was in the ditch when he got here. This is still a substantially better team than it was in 2014. Not as good as it could be or ought to be, but good grief! We've already got plenty of reasons to hang the man; we don't need to go making up charges.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It was in the ditch when he got here. This is still a substantially better team than it was in 2014. Not as good as it could be or ought to be, but good grief! We've already got plenty of reasons to hang the man; we don't need to go making up charges.

When he got here, the team had some draft picks and a lot of cap space. He wasn't strapped with bad contracts and was handed a pretty good scenario. Of course the team is better today, there was no place to go but up.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

It was in the ditch when he got here. This is still a substantially better team than it was in 2014. Not as good as it could be or ought to be, but good grief! We've already got plenty of reasons to hang the man; we don't need to go making up charges.

He had a ton of cap space, plus a lot of the good pieces that helped them finish second. We can go over his rap sheet again but that’s been beaten to death

He should find a neighbour with a winch

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I see that as wishful thinking.

Most contenders didn't have the tagging room to take on the last year of Giordano's contract. Teams that weren't contenders had no use for a 37-year-old defenceman who will walk or retire before they are ready to contend.

Retain some salary and Gio would make for a very attractive top 4 dman on any team. Gio at $3.5-4 million is great value. Don't think you'd have trouble finding someone.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Retain some salary and Gio would make for a very attractive top 4 dman on any team. Gio at $3.5-4 million is great value. Don't think you'd have trouble finding someone.

So now you think the Flames should not only have traded away their #1 defenceman in the middle of a fight to make the playoffs, they should have paid him several million dollars to play for someone else?

And you're blaming them because they didn't??

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The first people who need to be shown the door are the owners… and they have expressed no intention of selling.

I've said in other threads that Canadians are notoriously risk-averse, and it goes double for those few who are rich enough to own NHL clubs. The goal is not and never was to win the Stanley Cup. The goal is to avoid missing the playoffs so the business won't lose money. Doing a proper rebuild means years of poor crowds and heavy losses without any guaranteed return.

No matter who the GM is, or who is on his staff, they still get their marching orders from the same people. And those people refuse to contemplate a rebuild until they have no other choice.

Now this I can agree with.

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So, which contender wanted to add Gio for a year with available cap space and a protection spot?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

edmonton

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

So, which contender wanted to add Gio for a year with available cap space and a protection spot?

Originally Posted by Mattman

edmonton

I dunno, how many Giordanos can one team use?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You can not possibly even know that.

Unless you have some documented proof of a conversation between Tre and ownership, where he actually recommended a rebuild, and they declined

I highly doubt he has fallen on his own sword in any way, to be honest

I frankly find it much more plausible that he believes in enough of his roster sufficiently that he does not need a full tear down and rebuild

This coming from the guy who said ‘I can’t prove it, but I know it to be true’ about three-four months ago when Sutter was supposedly hired by the owners.

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The first people who need to be shown the door are the owners… and they have expressed no intention of selling.

I've said in other threads that Canadians are notoriously risk-averse, and it goes double for those few who are rich enough to own NHL clubs. The goal is not and never was to win the Stanley Cup. The goal is to avoid missing the playoffs so the business won't lose money. Doing a proper rebuild means years of poor crowds and heavy losses without any guaranteed return.

No matter who the GM is, or who is on his staff, they still get their marching orders from the same people. And those people refuse to contemplate a rebuild until they have no other choice.

I also agree with this.

Do you think this is the/a reason Canadian teams don't have success in playoffs?

Toronto is clearly a stacked team on paper and it looks like their management is trying their best to win the cup. Their last rebuild was creative and clearly changed the culture from the previous Leafs era into what is likely strongest Canadian market right now.

Vancouver was arguably the most recent powerhouse Canadian team back around their 2011 cup run. Very strong seasons on top of the league and won the President's in that span. Can't seem to gain traction in their rebuild phase.

Montreal, other than just being lucky this year, have been in a strange middling phase through a transition from Pacioretty, Subban, Koivu days to a promising young team. A slow build for them for sure.

Jets have had flashes, not dominant but a good overall team. Returning to Winnipeg was the last real rebuild the franchise has done. Re-tooled a bit, but again not dominant.

Ottawa. Well they shot them selves in the foot a year after being 1 goal from the Cup Finals. As long as they have Melnyk they will be trash. Promising young players but like similar to Vancouver just don't have the star players established yet.

Edmonton. I'm not saying this just because I dislike the Oilers, but they have an actual group of clowns running that organization. Players and coaches are alright but when you have McDavid on your team you should be moving mountains to get him the best supporting cast possible. They should be dominant, but they are not.

Right now the Canadian teams are probably the weakest they've ever been in league history as a collective and I wonder if there's any correlation to how these owners run them.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TOfan

This coming from the guy who said ‘I can’t prove it, but I know it to be true’ about three-four months ago when Sutter was supposedly hired by the owners.

Sure. What’s wrong with that?

I believe the owners helped along the coaching decision (and any such sensitive conversations were not made public). It’s not possible to know outright, but you can piece together a lot of reasons why that would be the case. I believe it based on my view of the situation

I do not believe that Tre recommended a rebuild to the owners and that the owners declined (and no such conversations have been made public) . And you can piece together many reasons why it is unlikely such a conversation happened. Again, my belief based on my view of the situation.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Mattman

I also agree with this.

Do you think this is the/a reason Canadian teams don't have success in playoffs?

I'm convinced it's part of it. When I look at the owners of the Canadian teams, I don't see a lot of risk-takers.

Murray Edwards made most of his money by takeovers of existing oil and gas producers in mature fields.

Daryl Katz made his by buying up regional drugstore chains, another mature business.

The Molsons owned one of the three companies that controlled the Canadian beer market for decades, and when they had to face competition from abroad, they merged their business with Coors.

Eugene Melnyk made his pile by manufacturing proven drugs after their patents had expired.

The Leafs are owned mostly by Bell and Rogers, the major players in the cartel that holds complete control of the Canadian media and telephone businesses. By law, no foreign company is permitted to compete with them, and no Canadian company has the resources to go up against them. They basically have a licence to print money from the CRTC.

Mark Chipman got rich by consolidating automobile dealerships into a larger chain, with a profitable sideline in car leasing. His partner, David Thomson, inherited big money; his grandfather bought up newspapers and consolidated them into one of the two big chains that controlled the business in English Canada, and his father parlayed that into control of Reuters and other electronic news outlets.

Francesco Aquilini trades real estate and builds condos. He probably takes more risks in his business than all the others put together.

None of these men, as far as I can discover, has invented a new product, created a new market, or taken any of the other big risks that make people into billionaires or bankrupts. I would not expect any of them to roll the dice on their NHL franchises when they can run nice, quiet, mediocre teams that never win any championships but never lose any money.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I do not believe that Tre recommended a rebuild to the owners and that the owners declined (and no such conversations have been made public) .

Nobody is saying that such a thing happened. What I said is that the owners are the only ones with the authority to decide whether a rebuild is going to happen. If they wanted one, I imagine they would fire Treliving and hire someone more suitable for that job. But it is quite clear that the general manager of the Calgary Flames cannot undertake a rebuild on his own say-so.