Ongoing Residential Schools Tragedy Discussion

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Sliver

One encouraging thing I've noticed as a father is how much better my kids' education on indigenous people has been in elementary and middle school versus mine. I had no knowledge of residential schools until well into adulthood. I remember learning about first nations people and culture and it was all the 'noble savage' trope.

In the 80s and 90s we friggen listened and laughed to Brocket 99. I hope we wouldn't have found it funny had we known, A. We were being racist and B. Why first nations people have so many more challenges than your average white guy. I know my kids wouldn't laugh at that...they'd be horrified.

Once you have a generation that can appreciate why there are unique difficulties and challenges for first nations people you can begin to address them. I think there has been too much baked-in racism in Boomers, early Gen X and whoever it was older than Boomers (the greatest generation?) to meaningfully address the problems. Hopefully younger Gen Xers and Millennials can start to move things in the right direction for healing and atonement.

I'd like to see that increased awareness and education turn to action and better living conditions for indigenous canadians. I'll be honest I'm a bit pessimistic when it comes to the response we've seen to this event because I worry that flags at half mast, orange shirts and "awareness" won't translate. Or maybe it will just not as quickly as I'd like. I will admit to being very weary of anything that resembles lip service or that attempts to solve a people problem with quick and easy solutions. We're talking about a literal cultural shift here and that can be very difficult, especially in the prairies where the rift between indigenous people and other Canadians is very deep.

I can say that as a youngster in Saskatchewan, I remember learning a ton about indigenous people and their history, including field trips which were quite memorable to me. It wasn't until I was older that it seemed to fade and the systemic racism washed some of that away.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I'd like to see that increased awareness and education turn to action and better living conditions for indigenous canadians. I'll be honest I'm a bit pessimistic when it comes to the response we've seen to this event because I worry that flags at half mast, orange shirts and "awareness" won't translate. Or maybe it will just not as quickly as I'd like. I will admit to being very weary of anything that resembles lip service or that attempts to solve a people problem with quick and easy solutions. We're talking about a literal cultural shift here and that can be very difficult, especially in the prairies where the rift between indigenous people and other Canadians is very deep.

I can say that as a youngster in Saskatchewan, I remember learning a ton about indigenous people and their history, including field trips which were quite memorable to me. It wasn't until I was older that it seemed to fade and the systemic racism washed some of that away.

I think you're right that it won't be fast. I don't think the boomers and older Gen Xers in power are capable of making the change. I think the coming generations will have to do it as I've lost all faith in current leadership to address the issues. In fact, I haven't even heard how any of these issues should be addressed and I have no ideas, either.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by redforever

The stories of the survivors of residential schools in Canada are documented in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

They speak of their life before being taken away to residential schools, how they were taken away, and what it was actually like to live in the residential schools...in many cases they were known as a number, not even their name.

While very hard to read in most cases, I think the least we can do as Canadians is listen to their stories.

https://ehprnh2mwo3.exactdn.com/wp-c...nglish_Web.pdf

The word abuse is in there 140 times, sexual 56 times, beat 64 times, strapped 40 times, slap 16 times just to give the idea of the heavy and consistent abuse despite it being only 259 pages long, but you could write hundreds of thousands of pages.

I saw my brother with his face held to a hot steaming pipe and then getting burned
on the arm by the supervisor. And I took my brother, tried to get him out of there.
And I saw my cousin get beat up to the point where he was getting kicked where he
couldn’t even walk and then it was my turn. I got beat so bad that I wet my pants.
Fears I lived with day and night to the point where at nighttime when you want to
go to the bathroom you can’t because there is someone sitting there with a stick or a
strap ready to beat on you if you try to go to that bathroom. And the only choice we
had was to pee in our beds. at’s not a nice feeling to have to sleep in that kind of a
bed.484

This one from Kamloops

And from the beatings, because I didn’t cry, they went berserk; you know the two
nuns. ey would just start beating you and lose control and hurl you against the
wall, throw you on the oor, kick you, punch you and just laid you; they couldn’t stop.
You know, they were insane, yeah. And they were not able to control themselves at
all.

I used to count. One girl got strapped forty-ve times, I was counting, yeah, and then
it came to my turn, I got a beating, and I wouldn’t cry. I just let her beat me and beat
me, and I wouldn’t cry. I just let her do that because, well, sometimes I would pretend I’m crying just so she’ll stop, but then other times I just didn’t cry, ’cause I knew
I was talking, maybe it was my fault, so I just let her beat me, and then next one, then
after we’d go to bed.486

And I remember after that evening, he took me into his office, and there was about
five or six of us boys in there, and he started touching us boys. Some would leave, and
some would come back, some would leave and come back when we’re watching tv
in, in the back of his office. He had a couch in there, and a tv. And we’d all get ready
to go to bed, and he made me stay back. And at that time, I didn’t know what was
gonna happen. I was sitting there, and I was wondering how come I had to stay back,
and I was watching tv there, and then he start touching me, and between my legs,
and he pulled my, my pyjamas down. And the experience that I went through of him
raping me, and I cried, and I yelled, but it didn’t do any good, ’cause he shoved the
rag in my mouth, and he was much stronger than me, he held me down, and the pain
and the yelling that I was screaming why are you doing that to me, there was no one
to help me. I felt helpless. And after he finished doing what he did to me, he sent me
back to my room, and I was in so much pain I couldn’t even hardly walk, and I could
feel this warm feeling running down the back of my leg on my pyjamas and on my
shorts. And I went to the washroom. I tried to clean myself up. This was blood

And then after church, there was a little canteen in the church, and the priest would
sell us candies. Well, after they got to know us, they started making us touch their
penis for candy. So not only were we going to church to pray, and go to catechism,
but we were also going to church ’cause they were giving us candy for touching them.
We didn’t have money

Again, we only are hearing the stories of the survivors who didn't get buried, not everyone were as 'good boys and good girls'. Not every child survived the beatings and abuse.

It's thoroughly disgusting.

[peter12]

Yeah, it's just a lot.

[CroFlames]

I just can't fathom abusing a child. A CHILD. The most innocent of innocents.

Verbal, physical, but especially sexual abuse. A CHILD.

I'm not a violent person. And I'm against the death penalty unequivocally. But I'm not sure I'd be able to stop myself from beating a priest or bishop to death if I knew he abused a child. And I doubt I'd feel one iota of remorse for doing it.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by calumniate

Well you should really consider joining the Catholic church as I think you'd be a great fit. You fail to listen or comprehend anything whilst pontificating disinformation propped up by self-aggrandizing platitudes. Seriously, well done.

Not an attack but something we should all remember:


This is the sort of verbage or assault that leads to extremely horrible events like those being discussed.


Nobody wins when one generalizes an entire group of people or believes one's self is superior to that group.


It's more important that we look at ourselves and change our ways so things like this never, ever happen again and so that those groups are never made to feel like they are secondary.

[KTrain]

I'm not sure if this is the appropriate place or this. I'll move it if it isn't. However, I do think it's relevant to the discussion and, in particular, educating our kids so they have a better chance of not succumbing to the same prejudices some of us have mentioned about our own past.

My wife is on the English Language Arts Council and for the past year she's been on a team of teachers compiling a list of Indigenous texts for teachers to include in their classrooms. She worked with Indigenous authors, artists, teachers and leaders to select a diverse range of texts for all age levels.

It might be worth looking at if you want to introduce your kids to Indigenous stories and you're not sure where to start.

Download the PDF

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I think you're right that it won't be fast. I don't think the boomers and older Gen Xers in power are capable of making the change. I think the coming generations will have to do it as I've lost all faith in current leadership to address the issues. In fact, I haven't even heard how any of these issues should be addressed and I have no ideas, either.

There's something like 94 recommendations and calls to action in the final report from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

You can download the pdf here to see them in detail...

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...-to-action.pdf

or you can read the summary from this CBC article.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/tru...tion-1.3362258


In regards to the high lighted portion of your text, I hope you are referring that to the actual people in power and not boomers in general.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by craigwd

Not an attack but something we should all remember:


This is the sort of verbage or assault that leads to extremely horrible events like those being discussed.


Nobody wins when one generalizes an entire group of people or believes one's self is superior to that group.


It's more important that we look at ourselves and change our ways so things like this never, ever happen again and so that those groups are never made to feel like they are secondary.

That's fine and well and I think we're on the same side, but my argument stands.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sliver

One encouraging thing I've noticed as a father is how much better my kids' education on indigenous people has been in elementary and middle school versus mine. I had no knowledge of residential schools until well into adulthood. I remember learning about first nations people and culture and it was all the 'noble savage' trope.

In the 80s and 90s we friggen listened and laughed to Brocket 99. I hope we wouldn't have found it funny had we known, A. We were being racist and B. Why first nations people have so many more challenges than your average white guy. I know my kids wouldn't laugh at that...they'd be horrified.

Once you have a generation that can appreciate why there are unique difficulties and challenges for first nations people you can begin to address them. I think there has been too much baked-in racism in Boomers, early Gen X and whoever it was older than Boomers (the greatest generation?) to meaningfully address the problems. Hopefully younger Gen Xers and Millennials can start to move things in the right direction for healing and atonement.

I will agree with the first text that I high lighted. I am a boomer and many of my generation did the same things as your generation did...until we realized it was racist...and then we were horrified with our actions and changed our ways.

I don't agree with the second text that I high lighted. Every generation has had racists...but every generation has also been capable of changing their actions as well. Unfortunately, news always reports the extremes and those are the visions that linger.

However, one thing that is different with me is I grew up right next to a reservation. My Dad's farm backed onto the Piapot Reservation just north of Regina. We always had relations with the First Nations people from that reservations and I have nothing but fond memories of them...and it is also one of the reasons I don't hold back when I hear nasty remarks or insinuations about our First Nations people.

As a young child, my Dad and his family always went to all the social activities on the reserve... my Dad participated in their sports days and the like. We were invited to the weddings, anniversaries etc of those we were closest to and we reciprocated as well. In fact, my parents were the only "white people" at a Diamond Jubilee of their closest Native friends and were seated at the head table. The reservation sent representatives to my parents' funerals as well.

We employed First Nations people but were always fair. The Qu'Appelle Valley is really only suited for ranching and grazing. It has excellent grass for haying but most of the Natives never had machinery. My father provided the machinery, they provided the labor (for stacking bales and the like as there was not equipment that did that early on), and the bales were split 50/50.

I am from a family of 4 girls so in spring and fall, my Dad always required extra help. Sometimes he went to Regina and employed some German immigrants, at other times he employed Natives from the Reserve. In either case, they ate at our tables, they lived with us, and were included in our family.

I always like to think and say that my parents were ahead of their time and had big shoes to fill...but that is how you learn tolerance and acceptance, by example. That is the only way forward, for each and everyone of us to set an example of inclusion.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by redforever

I will agree with the first text that I high lighted. I am a boomer and many of my generation did the same things as your generation did...until we realized it was racist...and then we were horrified with our actions and changed our ways.

I don't agree with the second text that I high lighted. Every generation has had racists...but every generation has also been capable of changing their actions as well. Unfortunately, news always reports the extremes and those are the visions that linger.

However, one thing that is different with me is I grew up right next to a reservation. My Dad's farm backed onto the Piapot Reservation just north of Regina. We always had relations with the First Nations people from that reservations and I have nothing but fond memories of them...and it is also one of the reasons I don't hold back when I hear nasty remarks or insinuations about our First Nations people.

As a young child, my Dad and his family always went to all the social activities on the reserve... my Dad participated in their sports days and the like. We were invited to the weddings, anniversaries etc of those we were closest to and we reciprocated as well. In fact, my parents were the only "white people" at a Diamond Jubilee of their closest Native friends and were seated at the head table. The reservation sent representatives to my parents' funerals as well.

We employed First Nations people but were always fair. The Qu'Appelle Valley is really only suited for ranching and grazing. It has excellent grass for haying but most of the Natives never had machinery. My father provided the machinery, they provided the labor (for stacking bales and the like as there was not equipment that did that early on), and the bales were split 50/50.

I am from a family of 4 girls so in spring and fall, my Dad always required extra help. Sometimes he went to Regina and employed some German immigrants, at other times he employed Natives from the Reserve. In either case, they ate at our tables, they lived with us, and were included in our family.

I always like to think and say that my parents were ahead of their time and had big shoes to fill...but that is how you learn tolerance and acceptance, by example. That is the only way forward, for each and everyone of us to set an example of inclusion.

Oh yeah, I didn't mean all boomers or all Gen Xers were racist. I meant more that the current Gen Xers and Boomers in power haven't seemed to me to have done much to address the history and its result on the present state of things for first nations people. Maybe they have, though, I'm just not aware of it.

Nice to hear you had positive interactions with first nations people growing up and with your family and your dad sounds awesome. My dad and his brothers have fond memories of going to downtown Prince Albert, SK to "watch the natives fight" and I was raised in an environment like that. Took me as an adult to understand how wrong and sad that attitude is, so working to change. I'm jealous of my kids' starting off point of not having to shed so many prejudices - the education they've received so far on first nations has also spawned an interest in those communities so we talk about first nations in my house a fair amount.

[MillerTime GFG]

Don't know if this has been mentioned or not, as I have not read through the whole thread, but I tweeted SN and CBC earlier today, mentioning they have a great opportunity to address this tonight, with what will be a massive national audience.

Considering the attention Humboldt got, I think this needs the same or more. Obviously you can't draw comparisons, as both are tragedies, but we're talking about hundreds/thousands of children just tossed aside.

I personally will be quite disappointed if they don't address this, even though it's not hockey-related. Doesn't matter to me though, as this is bigger than that.

[carmenshoes]

Crazy to think something like this could happen. Does anyone know how many residential schools there were in Canada?

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by carmenshoes

Crazy to think something like this could happen. Does anyone know how many residential schools there were in Canada?

I have seen this show up recently. That’s just Canada’s. I imagine the US also has a pretty extensive list. I think they had a different name in the states?

spoiler for size

Spoiler!

[tjinaz]

US put them in reservations but let them govern themselves. big difference. This is a Canandian thing. No government schools killing kids in the US. No mass graves at US schools

https://harvardpolitics.com/a-progre...enous-peoples/

[Wormius]

Not sure how trustworthy Wikipedia is, but it shows more than a couple that were focused on assimilation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amer...arding_schools

[Bs&Cs]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

US put them in reservations but let them govern themselves. big difference. This is a Canandian thing. No government schools killing kids in the US. No mass graves at US schools

https://harvardpolitics.com/a-progre...enous-peoples/

This is just plain untrue. There were over 350 American boarding schools, and the survivors of those schools tell a very similar story to the survivors of the ones here- including scores of children who never came home. Tribal rights to sovereignty weren't recognized until the Nixon administration and the American industrial boarding school system ran for over 100 years They ran a very similar program to the one here. Including offloading the day to days off on various churches and their legion of ghouls.

Considering how hard the Americans have fought the UN declaration, I doubt anyone's going to go looking for any mass graves down there but don't think they don't exist. To say that that the Americans just threw them on reserves and left them to their own devices is rather gross tbh.

[Mr.Coffee]

My very basic and probably ignorant understanding (and open to being corrected) is that the Americans did a whole lot more just mass slaughters of First Nations people under the cover of war. Easy to claim you aren’t executing cultural genocide when instead you just went with....

So, I’m not sure they get a free pass.

Nor does this excuse what Canada has done, nor does that mean we don’t escalate this as a society, nor does that mean there shouldn’t be a more visceral support of the Truth and Reconciliation Program, nor is it a contest for “who was worse”, etc.

But, yeah, pretty sure we shouldn’t look to the US as to the model as to what “we ought to have done”.

[Point Blank]

Speaking of education, Chris Champion, head of the UCP’s social studies draft curriculum and also edits the Dorchester Review has this to say about the recent discovery and thoughts about Residential schools:

As I am sure you know, it's because in many cases their parents wanted them there. That's why this should be based on research, not the politics and cashola of the TRC.

As long as the discoveries are not hijacked by fanatics in support of some deranged far-left claim of deliberate murder and genocide.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dorcheste...79044413095936

The SS draft curriculum makes no mention of Residential Schools until later grades, their excuse being that it would scar the children. Meanwhile in Grade 2, they’ll be learning about the Black Plague, a pandemic that killed over 75 million people.

[peter12]

#### that idiot.