Calgary Police Officer Killed During New Years Traffic Stop

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Are you asking what I would do different if I was the scumbag in the passenger seat or if I was the judge/parole board members?

If you were in the passenger seat and the driver acted in the same way.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

If you were in the passenger seat and the driver acted in the same way.

I think we can get a few things out of the way first. I wouldn't have been driving with a piece of #### that would drive over and kill a cop while running away from them. Wouldn't be driving with someone who didn't have a license, and wouldn't be driving around with warrants out for my arrests for previous crimes. This whole scenario could have easily been avoided by making basic decisions and not being a terrible person. I think that gets ignored too often.

Now if I someone was a terrible person once the driver started to drive away I would have screamed for them to stop, fought them so they would have to take their foot off the gas and couldn't drive and attempted to outright subdue them. I don't think this would have been all that difficult by the reports I read it was a 17 year old driving, having a friend scream to stop likely at least would have made them stop for a minute. Fighting off the cop and the passenger likely makes it hard to continue to drive away from the cop. Does it guarantee that nothing happens? No, but I already did that by not being dumb enough to put myself in that situation to begin with.

[PepsiFree]

I doubt the passenger had any awareness that his actions were going to result in someone dying. I doubt either of them did. Doesn’t make reality any different, but it should impact our understanding.

End of the day, if you don’t believe in rehabilitation then you might as well just put everyone who breaks the law to death and get rid of prisons entirely.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I doubt the passenger had any awareness that his actions were going to result in someone dying. I doubt either of them did. Doesn’t make reality any different, but it should impact our understanding.

End of the day, if you don’t believe in rehabilitation then you might as well just put everyone who breaks the law to death and get rid of prisons entirely.

I think that last part is a little extreme but I certainly would be fine with much, much harsher punishments than we currently have. I am fine with the death penalty covering a lot of crimes.

But saying anyone who breaks the law including minor offenses is over the top.

As for him not knowing his actions would result in someone dying there are enough actions that he took both leading up to the death and while it was happening I am not sure that matters. There were plenty of chances for him to stop this from happening and he chose not to because he didn't care.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Spurs

but I certainly would be fine with much, much harsher punishments than we currently have. I am fine with the death penalty covering a lot of crimes.

That's all I need to know about your views on this.

[8 Ball]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I think we can get a few things out of the way first. I wouldn't have been driving with a piece of #### that would drive over and kill a cop while running away from them. Wouldn't be driving with someone who didn't have a license, and wouldn't be driving around with warrants out for my arrests for previous crimes. This whole scenario could have easily been avoided by making basic decisions and not being a terrible person. I think that gets ignored too often.

Now if I someone was a terrible person once the driver started to drive away I would have screamed for them to stop, fought them so they would have to take their foot off the gas and couldn't drive and attempted to outright subdue them. I don't think this would have been all that difficult by the reports I read it was a 17 year old driving, having a friend scream to stop likely at least would have made them stop for a minute. Fighting off the cop and the passenger likely makes it hard to continue to drive away from the cop. Does it guarantee that nothing happens? No, but I already did that by not being dumb enough to put myself in that situation to begin with.

That’s a lot of What if’s. Especially in the agreed upon facts that the scene was chaotic.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by MBates

Well, the bolded is not at all true according to:

(a) the agreed upon manslaughter guilty plea;
(b) the facts as agreed to between the prosecutor and the accused (supported by body worn camera video); and
(c) the findings of the judge in sentencing.

Fair enough: I was basically going off of news reports from the time, which suggested he was more involved and that simply calling him a passenger would be misleading. But I appreciate the extra info!

[DownInFlames]

Harsher sentences and the death penalty sounds an awful lot like the American justice system. Considering they incarcerate more people than anyone and still have far more violent crime than we do should tell you all you need to know about that plan.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by DownInFlames

Harsher sentences and the death penalty sounds an awful lot like the American justice system. Considering they incarcerate more people than anyone and still have far more violent crime than we do should tell you all you need to know about that plan.

American system is far too weak, that is the problem they kind of in the middle between what I would prefer versus the Canadian system so they get no benefits at all.

Take drugs for example zero deterrent in American system. So peopke have no problem dealing drugs, reoffending etc. Make the punishments so they are an actual deterrent.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by 8 Ball

That’s a lot of What if’s. Especially in the agreed upon facts that the scene was chaotic.

There are no what ifs about not being friends with the kind of person who runs from the cops, not getting in car with a driver without a license, not having warrants that you would want to run from.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I personally don't believe you should be punished for the actions of another.

If the driver was a taxi or Uber driver, and the facts played out the same I don't believe the passenger should be punished for murder.

I also don't know how anyone could say for certain how they'd react in any situation.

One final question for you Spurs.

Let's say, you assault the driver in an attempt to stop the car. But in doing so, the car crashes, the officer and driver are killed, as well as a driver from on incoming car. What's the outcome?

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I personally don't believe you should be punished for the actions of another.

If the driver was a taxi or Uber driver, and the facts played out the same I don't believe the passenger should be punished for murder.

I also don't know how anyone could say for certain how they'd react in any situation.

One final question for you Spurs.

Let's say, you assault the driver in an attempt to stop the car. But in doing so, the car crashes, the officer and driver are killed, as well as a driver from on incoming car. What's the outcome?

But it isn't the actions of another. He chose to get in the car, chose to hang with that person, chose to not try to stop him. Like I said for me the best solution in to have never got in the car in the first place, why is that ignored as a option?

But yes once he chose to drive in a car with a person without a license and will run from the cops when the cop is holding onto the car there is no guarantee of how to stop that driver once he begins driving away.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Spurs

But it isn't the actions of another. He chose to get in the car, chose to hang with that person, chose to not try to stop him. Like I said for me the best solution in to have never got in the car in the first place, why is that ignored as an option?

If you get into a car with someone, do you check their license, review any warrants they may have, and look into the future to ensure they don’t have “run over a person” in theirs before you get in the car?

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If you get into a car with someone, do you check their license, review any warrants they may have, and look into the future to ensure they don’t have “run over a person” in theirs before you get in the car?

Weren't the warrants for the passenger?

And yes when driving with people I know if they have a license or not, especially if they are under 18.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Weren't the warrants for the passenger?

And yes when driving with people I know if they have a license or not, especially if they are under 18.

You check everyone’s license any time you drive with them?

[Fuzz]

I have them provide me with a driver's medical, just in case their is a bipolar disorder I need to know about.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You check everyone’s license any time you drive with them?

You have to check a person's drivers license to know whether they have a license or not? When I was young it was known he did or didn't have a license, if I didn't know the person I likely wouldn't have got in the car with them at all.

Maybe it is just a miracle that I managed to make it through 40+ years without getting into a car with a person who doesn't have a license and doesn't drive over cops, but I doubt it. Doubt anyone else here has been in that situation either. It isn't all down to luck.

[Sliver]

Spurs sounds like a super duper thoughtful person and I think his opinions have value. He doesn't just say the stupidest things that pop into his pea brain and he does a good job listening to experts clearly offer deeper insight, processes the new information and modifies his perspective to incorporate his now-deeper understanding.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We often get trapped in this weird little bubble around here of listening to others and trying to learn and grow. Silly, I know.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Clearly we all know if someone has a criminal history, including work colleagues, friends from college, and relatives. Well all of us but Spurs.

And if you happen to be with them, even if there's no prior indication of being pulled over, then you're on the hook for all their crimes.

Check section 718 of the Criminal Code. It's the transitive property of sentencing.

You know, I grew up across the street of someone charged with first degree murder. They used to play at my house as a kid.

Better pack my bags, I'm off to a federal penitentiary.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Clearly we all know if someone has a criminal history, including work colleagues, friends from college, and relatives. Well all of us but Spurs.

And if you happen to be with them, even if there's no prior indication of being pulled over, then you're on the hook for all their crimes.

Check section 718 of the Criminal Code. It's the transitive property of sentencing.

You know, I grew up across the street of someone charged with first degree murder. They used to play at my house as a kid.

Better pack my bags, I'm off to a federal penitentiary.

What are you talking about, nobody said or even implied any of this.