[Trade] McDonagh and JT Miller to TB for Hajek, Howden, Namestnikov, 2018 1st, cond 2nd

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The point I'm making isn't to re litigate the picks, it's to look at the entirety of it and question whether anaheim and tampa walking away from that draft with more than one home run comes down to both of those teams picking more in that draft than the flames did. This was the underlying point about holding onto bennett too long.

If the Flames have 6 picks instead of 5, do they walk away with josh manson or ondrej palat or andrew shaw?

If they have 9 picks instead of 5 do they get more than one of those guys?

We'll never know, because i'm pretty sure the team has only drafted more than 7 times once in the last decade. Lo and behold, it looks like the most bountiful draft the flames have had in about the same time period. One of the steals looks to be a 3rd round pick (fox) and a 6th round pick (Calgary's second of the round) Matt Phillips.

In the 2015 draft the Bruins, arguably the class of the league, drafted 10 times total, including SIX times in the first two rounds. They've got 198 games of NHL game play out of the draft. Sure, the Flames got Hamilton, great trade, would make it again, but the fact remains the Flames are looking 13 total games played from that draft where they picked 5 times and only twice in the first 4 rounds.

Sure, they have 200+ games from Hamilton. But the Flames are paying a premium for those games.

I don't disagree with any of this. And if you pull up even further it is driven from an organization that has been asset poor for a very long time. Dealing off core guys in the 90s, amplified by years of poor drafting, and then further bad deals.
They eroded the asset base and now are constantly stealing from Paul to pay Peter.
I feel like overall the asset base is far better now, but still below average overall and well below the likes of the Bolts.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Monahan
Gaudreau
Hamilton
Tkachuk
Giordano
Hamonic
Backlund

All on reasonable contracts...Flames have some dead weight and need some help on the right side. I think most people would say the Flames "window" is just now starting to open.

As much as I would love for the Flames to find the same kind of success as teams like Tampa and Boston, right now the evidence suggests this is what the team tops out as - a bubble playoff team struggling to break out of mediocrity. And they've leveraged so many picks and opportunities to move struggling players before they lose most of their value (Bennett, Brodie) that I have a hard time seeing improvement coming in the near future.

How much more improvement can we reasonably expect out of players like Gaudreau and Monahan who are already some of the top players at their position? Gio, Backlund, and Hamonic are all good bets to get worse as time goes on while Hamilton and Tkachuk still have some room to grow.. but overall I think this is pretty much what we're looking at, and it's not close to a Stanley Cup winner as it stands.

Pending some major addition to the core or a drastic improvement once Gulutzan is given his walking papers I can't say I see things as rosy as you do, but that's just my opinion.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

As much as I would love for the Flames to find the same kind of success as teams like Tampa and Boston, right now the evidence suggests this is what the team tops out as - a bubble playoff team struggling to break out of mediocrity. And they've leveraged so many picks and opportunities to move struggling players before they lose most of their value (Bennett, Brodie) that I have a hard time seeing improvement coming in the near future.

How much more improvement can we reasonably expect out of players like Gaudreau and Monahan who are already some of the top players at their position? Gio, Backlund, and Hamonic are all good bets to get worse as time goes on while Hamilton and Tkachuk still have some room to grow.. but overall I think this is pretty much what we're looking at, and it's not close to a Stanley Cup winner as it stands.

Pending some major addition to the core or a drastic improvement once Gulutzan is given his walking papers I can't say I see things as rosy as you do, but that's just my opinion.

This is just silly...giving up on Bennett already? Also, Flames D has improved greatly over the season. With a little offensive help they could easily have 5+ more wins right now. Consider all the games they have blown...To think this is the best season this core will have is ridiculous IMO

Anyway this has turned into the rag on the Flames thread so I am out

[dammage79]

After sitting down and really looking at this trade after loving it when it was announced, this is a coup for the Rangers.Re-tool on the fly type move. Big fan of Hajek and Namestnikov, then you add Howden who was very relevant in some WJC performances, man its a good move just on those names alone, then you add the picks. quite a haul.

[Enoch Root]

Hamonic is 27 and is just entering his prime years as a defenseman.

Hamilton hasn't even gotten to that point yet.

Yes, Gaudreau and Monahan are pretty much what they are going to be. But the Flames are only a couple forwards from being really good.

With Bennett, Jankowski, Dube, Fooand a few other longer shots, maybe one or two of them takes another step (I think Bennett is almost a certainty).

Also, they have lots of defensive depth to trade for a forward.

Saying this is what they are going to be is extremely short-sighted IMO.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

I don't disagree with any of this. And if you pull up even further it is driven from an organization that has been asset poor for a very long time. Dealing off core guys in the 90s, amplified by years of poor drafting, and then further bad deals.
They eroded the asset base and now are constantly stealing from Paul to pay Peter.
I feel like overall the asset base is far better now, but still below average overall and well below the likes of the Bolts.

You can still win with this core group.

but this problem of being asset poor doesnt fix itself, it has to actually be addressed, in a systemic way, for years, before it will get better.

But it probably means missing the playoffs for 2 or 3 years, maybe in a row, and selling popular-because-they're-productive players year after year after year. Brodies, Backlunds, Bennetts, Ferlands.

You don't address it by dealing 4-6 2nd round picks in a calendar year.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You can still win with this core group.

but this problem of being asset poor doesnt fix itself, it has to actually be addressed, in a systemic way, for years, before it will get better.

But it probably means missing the playoffs for 2 or 3 years, maybe in a row, and selling popular-because-they're-productive players year after year after year. Brodies, Backlunds, Bennetts, Ferlands.

You don't address it by dealing 4-6 2nd round picks in a calendar year.

I don't mind the dealing of 2nds, as they seem to be the most powerful currency. However, I agree with the broader point that you need more bullets in the chamber. For instance stock up on 4ths and take some home run swings in that round. Every year there are some impact players found there.

But they are trying to kick open their window so I'm not going to constantly re-visit those decisions, as it is pointless.

The key is what they do now to take advantage of the window in the next few years.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You can still win with this core group.

but this problem of being asset poor doesnt fix itself, it has to actually be addressed, in a systemic way, for years, before it will get better.

But it probably means missing the playoffs for 2 or 3 years, maybe in a row, and selling popular-because-they're-productive players year after year after year. Brodies, Backlunds, Bennetts, Ferlands.

You don't address it by dealing 4-6 2nd round picks in a calendar year.

Oh yes, the proven formula of trading your productive (best) players for draft picks.
One can imagine the ROI on Kipper at the 2004 trade deadline. Probably best time to trade Iggy too.
TB was nuts for signing Stamkos to the that contract. Could have got some decent picks and start a proper rebuild