[Trade] McDonagh and JT Miller to TB for Hajek, Howden, Namestnikov, 2018 1st, cond 2nd

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Since1984

You can only make the trades that are offered to you. Feaster got the most he could oout of both the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades...if there were better trades on the table...we would be complaining about those ones.

You know there weren't better ones? You know that he canvassed as hard as other GMs seem to? How? Some GMs a re better at certain thiings than others. I refuse to believe that Benning did all he could to maximize the Vanek return.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Not trying to beat a dead horse, but this deal also underlines how bad the Bouwmeester to Blues trade was.

The flames were starting from less than scratch in their 'rebuild'. It's a huge factor in how things have stalled out.

Most teams that start a rebuild finally acquiesce and actually get decent return for their assets to start things off.

For example, The Rangers, who are now set to draft 3 times in the 1st, twice in the second and twice in the third round.

They have a 2nd in 2019 that becomes a 2019 first if tampa wins the cup either this year or next.

That is ALREADY better than the two drafts Calgary made after dealing Bouwmeester and Iginla.

Calgary needs to be even more shrewd with acquiring picks than a team like tampa or new york.

But they aren't, and they haven't been, and they've sucked as a result.

And, yes, they will continue to suck as a result until they change their, at this point, ludicrous strategy of doing everything they can just to make the playoffs.

By my count, in the last calendar year, the Flames have moved out:

2017 2nd
2018 3rd (That becomes a 2nd if the flames make the playoffs this year)
2018 1st
2018 2nd
2019 2nd
2019th 6th
2018th 7th (It looks like for Shore)

They have received:
2019 4th (conditional on year)

Look at St.Louis today. They moved this years 1st round pick last year at the draft for Brayden Schenn. Right now, the Blues are 1 point back of Calgary (with 2 more wins and a better goal differential). The Blues are 3-6-1 in their last 10, flames 5-4-1.

The blues got a 1st rounder back. It'll likely end up a later pick, but unlike the Flames, they have all of their own picks this year other than that 1st, and all of their own picks in the first 3 rounds next year. The Blues will likely have made at least 2 picks at the draft this year before Calgary goes up to the podium.

According to Strickland I believe, this deal was not in the cards for St.Louis until just the last two weeks. They looked at where they were at with their roster and decided to capitalize on deadline frenzy.

The flames shipped out a 7th rounder to shore up the bottom half of the roster in order to prevent 2nd and 3rd line AHLers from getting into the lineup because of an injury to Ferland.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Lets see if Tampa gets past the 2nd round before we crown them

The 2nd round is the Flames Stanley Cup.
.
They draft Point, we draft Smith. That one still blows my mind. Home grown kid with 91 points in his draft year and we take a pass.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The 2nd round is the Flames Stanley Cup.
.
They draft Point, we draft Smith. That one still blows my mind. Home grown kid with 91 points in his draft year and we take a pass.

Kucherov drafted with the pick immeidately following Wotherspoon.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I don't think you can criticize the Flames for the picks they shipped out in the past few years (like Hamilton and Hamonic).

This wasn't a 'rushed rebuild' that some people seem to like crying about lately. Want a long, scorched-earth rebuild? Go cheer for the Oilers, Sabres or Coyotes.

Those draft picks that were spent were on good defencemen playing in the top 4, and BOTH have really good contracts. They also have the luxury of trading defencemen down the road to help replenish the cupboards.

They are not throwing out draft picks willy-nilly in some vain attempt at just making the playoffs. That's not what is going on here. This was not rushed. This is what a PROPER rebuild looks like, rather than out-right tanking.

Tampa is doing a really good job, but they have also become the league's best drafting team. That doesn't mean Calgary did a bad rebuild. Just look at the other teams that rebuilt before and after the Flames, and tell me they did a better job. Colorado, Islanders (and with one of the best players in the world as well)...

Nashville did a nice retool. Tampa did a really good job at their rebuild. Vegas did phenomenal on their expansion draft and stocking their cupboards for the next while.

Calgary is doing pretty damn good too, if people haven't noticed.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

And, yes, they will continue to suck as a result until they change their, at this point, ludicrous strategy of doing everything they can just to make the playoffs.

Flames are sucking now?

They have been making ludicrous moves just to make the playoffs?

Wow, that is quite the take.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The 2nd round is the Flames Stanley Cup.
.
They draft Point, we draft Smith. That one still blows my mind. Home grown kid with 91 points in his draft year and we take a pass.

Point is 9th overall in points from that draft - and was taken 79th overall.
So there was 69 other bad picks made that day
Drafting is easy with 20/20 hindsight.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Kucherov drafted with the pick immeidately following Wotherspoon.

In the same draft Calgary nabbed Johnny.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

Point is 9th overall in points from that draft - and was taken 79th overall.
So there was 69 other bad picks made that day
Drafting is easy with 20/20 hindsight.

Point was a pretty obvious pick at the time, Smith was a pretty obvious poor pick at the time.

[Jiri Hrdina]

24 players were drafted between Smith and Point. If he was so obvious why did an entire round almost go by?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wild GM

In the same draft Calgary nabbed Johnny.

You're doing it wrong

[1qqaaz]

I agree with Aarongavey, it was pretty obvious that Point was a much better prospect than Smith.

GMs put so much weight into size back then. Pretty silly.

[dieHARDflameZ]

I didn’t like the Smith pick when it was made and I think it was a complete dud now for obvious reasons but those saying that we should have drafted Point at the time give me a break. A boat load of other teams passed on the kid, not just the Flames.

He panned out, good for Tampa. Good for Calgary getting Gaudreau at 104th overall.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Point was a pretty obvious pick at the time, Smith was a pretty obvious poor pick at the time.

I agree with the second part of your post but in hindsight a number of guys were pretty obvious picks ahead of Smith at the time.

[Enoch Root]

Feaster did some good things. But he was a terrible trader. Horrible.

Having said that, when it comes to the draft, there is a large amount of random luck involved. And the simple fact of the matter is that the year he traded Iginla and Bouwmeester, the bottom of the first round had nothing in it.

He should have gotten a lot more for them than he did, but the draft class, after about #20, was very weak. Is what it is.

He offered the 3 picks for MacKinnon... I wish that would have happened, even though Monahan was a great pick at #6.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The flames were starting from less than scratch in their 'rebuild'. It's a huge factor in how things have stalled out.

Most teams that start a rebuild finally acquiesce and actually get decent return for their assets to start things off.

For example, The Rangers, who are now set to draft 3 times in the 1st, twice in the second and twice in the third round.

They have a 2nd in 2019 that becomes a 2019 first if tampa wins the cup either this year or next.

That is ALREADY better than the two drafts Calgary made after dealing Bouwmeester and Iginla.

Calgary needs to be even more shrewd with acquiring picks than a team like tampa or new york.

But they aren't, and they haven't been, and they've sucked as a result.

And, yes, they will continue to suck as a result until they change their, at this point, ludicrous strategy of doing everything they can just to make the playoffs.

By my count, in the last calendar year, the Flames have moved out:

2017 2nd
2018 3rd (That becomes a 2nd if the flames make the playoffs this year)
2018 1st
2018 2nd
2019 2nd
2019th 6th
2018th 7th (It looks like for Shore)

They have received:
2019 4th (conditional on year)

Look at St.Louis today. They moved this years 1st round pick last year at the draft for Brayden Schenn. Right now, the Blues are 1 point back of Calgary (with 2 more wins and a better goal differential). The Blues are 3-6-1 in their last 10, flames 5-4-1.

The blues got a 1st rounder back. It'll likely end up a later pick, but unlike the Flames, they have all of their own picks this year other than that 1st, and all of their own picks in the first 3 rounds next year. The Blues will likely have made at least 2 picks at the draft this year before Calgary goes up to the podium.

According to Strickland I believe, this deal was not in the cards for St.Louis until just the last two weeks. They looked at where they were at with their roster and decided to capitalize on deadline frenzy.

The flames shipped out a 7th rounder to shore up the bottom half of the roster in order to prevent 2nd and 3rd line AHLers from getting into the lineup because of an injury to Ferland.

I will take the Flames in the next few seasons over the Blues thanks...Calgary is on the cusp of being a top team.

They weren't big buyers today and had no UFAs to ship out unless you think somebody wanted Stajan. Comparing them to the Blues is ridiculous.

Flames are also 2 points out of home ice in the first round behind a team that traded a first for a rental.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I will take the Flames in the next few seasons over the Blues thanks...Calgary is on the cusp of being a top team.

Playing devil’s advocate here, but based on what, exactly?

[Flash Walken]

The point I'm making isn't to re litigate the picks, it's to look at the entirety of it and question whether anaheim and tampa walking away from that draft with more than one home run comes down to both of those teams picking more in that draft than the flames did. This was the underlying point about holding onto bennett too long.

If the Flames have 6 picks instead of 5, do they walk away with josh manson or ondrej palat or andrew shaw?

If they have 9 picks instead of 5 do they get more than one of those guys?

We'll never know, because i'm pretty sure the team has only drafted more than 7 times once in the last decade. Lo and behold, it looks like the most bountiful draft the flames have had in about the same time period. One of the steals looks to be a 3rd round pick (fox) and a 6th round pick (Calgary's second of the round) Matt Phillips.

In the 2015 draft the Bruins, arguably the class of the league, drafted 10 times total, including SIX times in the first two rounds. They've got 198 games of NHL game play out of the draft. Sure, the Flames got Hamilton, great trade, would make it again, but the fact remains the Flames are looking 13 total games played from that draft where they picked 5 times and only twice in the first 4 rounds.

Sure, they have 200+ games from Hamilton. But the Flames are paying a premium for those games.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Playing devil’s advocate here, but based on what, exactly?

Monahan
Gaudreau
Hamilton
Tkachuk
Giordano
Hamonic
Backlund

All on reasonable contracts...Flames have some dead weight and need some help on the right side. I think most people would say the Flames "window" is just now starting to open.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're doing it wrong

pretty glib for a fan of a team with 1 second round playoff appearance in more than a decade.