[PGT] Flames 4. Habs 1. Backstrom solid in Flames debut

[GioforPM]

Yeah, a lot of success last year was because Hartley made good choices (guesses?) with his goalies.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I have no clue what you are trying to prove anymore Granteed. You just spew out random crap and somehow come to the conclusion that your stats prove a point. Are you trying to be the new Ricardow?

This is as mind boggling as your definition of when the rebuild is considered over. Which is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum by the way. And you defended that dumb post just like your defending this dumb post.

If Hiller was considered an above average starting goaltender at any point last year, we would of been able to trade him last off-season.

If Ramo was considered an above average starting goaltender at any point last year, he would of earned a contract elsewhere.

If Ortio was considered an above average starting goaltender at any point last year, we wouldn't of re-signed Ramo creating the 3 headed monster in the first place.

Not even the biggest advanced stats guys or rival fans were crediting last years success to goaltending. Only you and only now...

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

If Hiller was considered an above average starting goaltender at any point last year, we would of been able to trade him last off-season.

Hiller was above average last year, and below average for how many years before last year?

Hiller had a great year last year, probably the best of his career in years.

That doesn't change the fact that it was just one year.

If Ramo was considered an above average starting goaltender at any point last year, he would of earned a contract elsewhere.

Ramo was never above average. But he was definitely an above average backup / 1B.

If Ortio was considered an above average starting goaltender at any point last year, we wouldn't of re-signed Ramo creating the 3 headed monster in the first place.

Are you just obtuse? Ortio played six ****ing games last year. He played well in January.... but he played six ****ing games.

Really, instead of going on personal attack tirades against not only I but many other posters on this board, you need to slow down and use your reading comprehension to read what a post is saying.

Here are the facts:

1) Hiller, who was our de facto starter last year (52GP) had a high danger save percentage that off set the fact that we were one of the teams in the league that gave up a lot of high danger scoring chances. The two things offset each other into an average starter save percentage. In the future if we want an average starter save percentage that means we would probably again need a starter who is playing better than an average starter. Is there an argument against this claim you have?

2) Ramo, who was our de facto backup last year, had a save percentage that might have made him a low-end starter on another team. When he was on his game he played like a starter, and when he wasn't on his game, Hiller was. A lower end starter is better than a backup. Is there an argument against this claim you have?

3) Ortio stole us a four game road winning streak. He also only played six games. No team is going to hand the keys to a guy who played six games.

The reason you have a problem with my arguments is because they disagree with your opinion. That's fine, enjoy your opinion. When I post data to back up my arguments and your only rebuttal is "hahahhhhhhagahaahahha" though, you're not contributing anything useful.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Hiller was above average last year, and below average for how many years before last year?

Hiller had a great year last year, probably the best of his career in years.

That doesn't change the fact that it was just one year.



Ramo was never above average. But he was definitely an above average backup / 1B.



Are you just obtuse? Ortio played six ****ing games last year. He played well in January.... but he played six ****ing games.

I change my mind, now this is the dumbest thing I've ever read on CP. You keep 1-upping yourself like it's a competition.

I'm done responding to this garbage. My brain actually hurts trying to figure out how someone can possibly think the way you do. I feel like you'd be a great fit on HF boards though. You should give them a shot, I'm sure they'll really value your input.

[ScorchyScorch]

Holy crap I thought the game was today.

So we played and won, and Backstrom was good. Damn, the things I miss.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I've posted this in the past but:

Save percentages by month/series:

		Hiller		Ortio		Ramo
October		0.941		N/A		0.914
November	0.885		N/A		0.925
December	0.923		N/A		0.867
January		0.901		0.931		0.923 (1GP)
February	0.908		N/A		0.945
March		0.925		N/A		0.907
April		0.953		.773 (1GP)	N/A
vs Canucks 	0.931		N/A		0.905
vs Ducks 	.786 (1GP)	N/A		0.907

Every month we got a goalie to stand on his head (Hiller more often) while the other goalie backed up. And that's overall save percentages not just high danger. The Tandem worked. Overall they got league average save percentages as a team, but they won a lot of games off of goaltending while giving up a ton of chances. There was not a month where we got below a .923 save percentage from at least one of the two goalies.

And again, a team that gives up more dangerous chances than 24 other teams do, yet has a 16th place save percentage, is not a team where the goalies are letting that team down. The reason that there weren't any months where both goalies were playing well, was because neither goalie is a #1. But don't confuse that with "both goalies played better-than-average at times, enough to post a league average save percentage overall despite getting some terrible chances against" . They did.

Average Save Percentage =/= Average Goaltending.

If Caged Great wants a .918 save percentage in front of this team, we need an above average goaltender or two guys playing in perfect synergy, or an improvement of team defense. One, the other, or preferably both.

No matter if one guy was good each month (which again is an arbitrary end point) - the overall team save percentage was .911 which was pretty much dead-on in the middle of the league last year. Its not like the 'hot' goalie played each game of the month.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

If you drop that arbitrary number all the way down to 1700 minutes the only change is Ryan Miller gets added into the mix and pushes Hiller down to eighth. Drop it to 1300 and you add Talbot (great goalie, backup minutes) and Allen (great goalie, backup minutes).

Any way you present it, Hiller had a top ten high danger save percentage last year, which was a huge contribution to a team that was 25th in high danger chances against. He also played bonafide starter minutes (2300+ minutes > 1300+ minutes). It's pretty straight forward.

I'm still not seeing 8th (that is including playoffs as you mentioned earlier)

[CalgaryFan1988]

Nm

How about that Leaf game?

[transplant99]

high danger save percentage

wow. this advanced stats junk is completely out of control.

I'd sure like to know who determines if a chance is "high danger" or not and how it could possibly be equally applied at all times league wide in every game.

I literally laughed out loud when I read that one.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by transplant99

wow. this advanced stats junk is completely out of control.

I'd sure like to know who determines if a chance is "high danger" or not and how it could possibly be equally applied at all times league wide in every game.

I literally laughed out loud when I read that one.

Ya this stat has literally been laughed at and discredited by some of the most knowledgeable pro's in the game.

One high danger scoring chance does not equal another. The qualifications are a joke. Really no need to talk about it further.

It's just a stat some people go to when they can't find any other advanced stat that fits their narrative.

Which is what Granteed does in just about every thread he pops his head into.

[ScorchyScorch]

Backstrom not sucking in a game he shouldn't have sucked in nor any other goalie is still no reason to rip on him. I don't even understand this forum sometimes.

A few people will be getting quoted from this thread for sure if he runs with this opportunity and earns one of the spots for next season.

Not saying he will, just saying that a lot of posters make really premature judgments of players. According to CP, Monahan was expendable 2 months ago, so that should say enough.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by ScorchyScorch

Backstrom not sucking in a game he shouldn't have sucked in nor any other goalie is still no reason to rip on him. I don't even understand this forum sometimes.

A few people will be getting quoted from this thread for sure if he runs with this opportunity and earns one of the spots for next season.

Not saying he will, just saying that a lot of posters make really premature judgments of players. According to CP, Monahan was expendable 2 months ago, so that should say enough.

I don't think any posters have been ripping on Backstrom. They are telling the posters who ARE prematurely judging Backstrom to cool the jets until we see more. It's not Backstrom's fault he didn't have to make any big saves. But you can't pencil a goalie into training camp next season because he kept the worst offensive team in the league to 1 goal against.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

I don't think any posters have been ripping on Backstrom. They are telling the posters who ARE prematurely judging Backstrom to cool the jets until we see more. It's not Backstrom's fault he didn't have to make any big saves. But you can't pencil a goalie into training camp next season because he kept the worst offensive team in the league to 1 goal against.

I don't think anyone was advocating Backstrom get a spot next season based off last night. Some people were saying that if he has a few more good games, maybe he could be in the running for third string veteran, possibly backup, if he proves himself and beats someone out. Obviously if he bombs, the conversation is over, I doubt any one disputes that. It was more a sentiment of 'Backstrom can be the new Joey MacDonald if he plays his cards right'. Let's not make this into something it wasn't.

[GranteedEV]

No matter if one guy was good each month (which again is an arbitrary end point) - the overall team save percentage was .911 which was pretty much dead-on in the middle of the league last year. Its not like the 'hot' goalie played each game of the month.

You're right, but it was only through being hot that they got to a league average save percentage. They played above average at enough different points in the season in front of a team that gave up a lot of nightmare chances, and it all worked out. Which was dandy, but we haven't been able to repeat it. We're back to bottom 3 in save percentage for the third time in four seasons.

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Ya this stat has literally been laughed at and discredited by some of the most knowledgeable pro's in the game.

One high danger scoring chance does not equal another. The qualifications are a joke. Really no need to talk about it further.

It's just a stat some people go to when they can't find any other advanced stat that fits their narrative.

Which is what Granteed does in just about every thread he pops his head into.

First of all it was heep who brought "this stat" up. Last I checked I was pointing to visual observations. But even if you claim it's been discredited, it hasn't actually. Don't project your feelings as data.

Second your posts are a friggin joke. It's as if you get high blood pressure when someone backs up an argument with anything other than "I'm RIGHT YOUR WRONG I WATCH THE GAME YOU OBVIOUSLY DONT BECAUSE I DO" which is the crux of every post you are capable of making. Seriously, do yourself a favor and use your ignore list if you're incapable of holding an articulate conversation.