Summer 2014 Prospect Ranking Poll Rd1

[Point Blank]

I know this is kind of a far reaching question, but where do you guys think Monahan would be ranked if he was sent back to the 67's after 9 games instead of staying with the Flames? Assuming his development was a steady rise. 3rd after Bennett?

[sun]

Feels SO GOOD to have some prospect depth in this org. Man, what a drought till recently...

Could reallllly use a stud on the back end though.

[Completely]

Originally Posted by mile

I think he would likely get picked after Jones and before Lindholm/Monahan.

There is no way Bennett falls after Horvat - I think there would be more of a debate choosing between Barkov/Bennett (although most would easily take Barkov) than Horvat/Bennett.

I think the homer glasses are real. Didn't scouts say that Jones was a step higher than Ekblad? Barkov got picked before Jones. IF Bennett was as good, I feel that he would have gone first overall beating out Ekblad this year and there wouldn't have been a discussion over the top 4 this year.

Feel as if he would have gone around 9-11. Don't think he touches last years top 4. 5-7 Maybe if a team really liked him.

[sun]

Originally Posted by T@T

I wanted Bennett before most on this board even heard of him

lol ####.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by mile

I think he would likely get picked after Jones and before Lindholm/Monahan.

There is no way Bennett falls after Horvat - I think there would be more of a debate choosing between Barkov/Bennett (although most would easily take Barkov) than Horvat/Bennett.

Bennett rose this year though. Or at least players like Nylander fell from their 2012 rankings. Had he had a similar career but born 1 year earlier players like MacKinnon, Jones, Barkov, Monahan and Lindholm would have easily been ranked ahead of him at the start of his draft season. These were players often found in the 2013 top 5 rankings long before the actual draft and if not for Drouin climbing would have been drafted there.

So a player like Monahan has high expectations going into his draft 2012-2013 season and more-or-less meets them. He's an older draft pick but he's a safe pick. Bennett was a young draftee, a bit harder to gauge and while he's no doubt rising and entering the discussion I still see Calgary, especially, going with the safe pick of Monahan. Edmonton, in a similar fashion to this draft with going with the bigger forward, pretty much has to take the defenseman over Bennett. If he makes it by Buffalo, I could still see Horvat being taken by Vancouver simply because they obviously saw something they liked in him. Which puts him with the high risk-high reward camp as Nichushkin.

It's no slight on Bennett but I could see him being drafted outside of the top 10 a lot easier than in the top 5. The 2013 was a deep and talented draft and like the 2003 draft you'll probably see a lot of quality players picked outside the top 10.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Completely

I think the homer glasses are real. Didn't scouts say that Jones was a step higher than Ekblad? Barkov got picked before Jones. IF Bennett was as good, I feel that he would have gone first overall beating out Ekblad this year and there wouldn't have been a discussion over the top 4 this year.

Feel as if he would have gone around 9-11. Don't think he touches last years top 4. 5-7 Maybe if a team really liked him.

Not even close.

Horvat had 61 points in 67 games in his draft year (on a stacked team)

Bennett had 91 in 57. (and yes I know stats aren't everything)

Bennett is faster, more talented, more tenacious, and by all accounts, a much more highly touted prospect.

And it isn't homer glasses - he was ranked #1 by central scouting (or ISS, one or the other).

If he was in last year's draft he probably goes 5th, IMO

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Not even close.

Horvat had 61 points in 67 games in his draft year (on a stacked team)

Bennett had 91 in 57. (and yes I know stats aren't everything)

Bennett is faster, more talented, more tenacious, and by all accounts, a much more highly touted prospect.

And it isn't homer glasses - he was ranked #1 by central scouting (or ISS, one or the other).

If he was in last year's draft he probably goes 5th, IMO

Domi had 87 in 64 games and was taken multiple spots after Horvat though at 12th overall.

[Enoch Root]

Just catching up in this thread and seeing several people state they think he would have gone outside the top 10 last year and behind Horvat.

Give your head a shake people.

Horvat had 0.91 PPG in his draft year.

Bennett had 1.60

Horvat likely becomes a good 3rd line C, or maybe a decent 2nd liner. Bennett projects as a 1st line C.

They aren't close.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Domi had 87 in 64 games and was taken multiple spots after Horvat though at 12th overall.

Yeah, what's your point?

Domi was ranked higher on most scouting lists than Horvat and was always ranked ahead of him until after the Memorial Cup. One good week and Horvat's rank jumped - he was over-picked at 9.

Your post only goes to serve my point that Horvat was in the group of players in the teens last year.

Comparing him to Bennett is ridiculous

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And it isn't homer glasses - he was ranked #1 by central scouting (or ISS, one or the other).

It was central scouting and if we went with their 2013 rankings the Flames would have grabbed Shinkaruk over Monahan....

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just catching up in this thread and seeing several people state they think he would have gone outside the top 10 last year and behind Horvat.

Give your head a shake people.

Horvat had 0.91 PPG in his draft year.

Bennett had 1.60

Horvat likely becomes a good 3rd line C, or maybe a decent 2nd liner. Bennett projects as a 1st line C.

They aren't close.

The funny thing is you could compare Horvat to multiple 2013 players and come up with the same conclusion that Horvat shouldn't have been taken 9th overall regardless of having Bennett in the draft. Yet the Canucks saw something in him that made them take him over Nichushkin, Domi, Wennenberg, Zadorov, Pulock etc. etc. I don't know what it was exactly, but it might be enough to take him over Bennett if given the chance.

[sun]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It was central scouting and if we went with their 2013 rankings the Flames would have grabbed Shinkaruk over Monahan....

The funny thing is you could compare Horvat to multiple 2013 players and come up with the same conclusion that Horvat shouldn't have been taken 9th overall regardless of having Bennett in the draft. Yet the Canucks saw something in him that made them take him over Nichushkin, Domi, Wennenberg, Zadorov, Pulock etc. etc. I don't know what it was exactly, but it might be enough to take him over Bennett if given the chance.

canucks are No Good at drafting, but they are not that No Good.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It was central scouting and if we went with their 2013 rankings the Flames would have grabbed Shinkaruk over Monahan....

Shinkaruk dropped (by all teams from 10 to 24) for pretty clear reasons. If they had him agead of Monahan, they were the only ones. Monahan was 5/6 on pretty much every list and Shinkaruk was more typically 10th to 12th.

The funny thing is you could compare Horvat to multiple 2013 players and come up with the same conclusion that Horvat shouldn't have been taken 9th overall regardless of having Bennett in the draft. Yet the Canucks saw something in him that made them take him over Nichushkin, Domi, Wennenberg, Zadorov, Pulock etc. etc. I don't know what it was exactly, but it might be enough to take him over Bennett if given the chance.

Pure pointless speculation. Vancouver liked him over those other players, yes. And they took him a bit early by some accounts.

What is your point/ That doesn't make him a comparable to a guy that was #1 overall by CSS.

It just doesn't. You're making an empty, speculative argument, ignoring the facts.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Completely

I think the homer glasses are real. Didn't scouts say that Jones was a step higher than Ekblad? Barkov got picked before Jones. IF Bennett was as good, I feel that he would have gone first overall beating out Ekblad this year and there wouldn't have been a discussion over the top 4 this year.

Feel as if he would have gone around 9-11. Don't think he touches last years top 4. 5-7 Maybe if a team really liked him.

I never said Bennett was as good as Barkov - but I think a Bennett/Barkov comparison is more valid than a Bennett/Horvat comparison because they both project to be first line centers. Horvat's ceiling is a good #2 center.

IMO Bennett would at least be in the Lindholm/Monahan tier, if not slightly better. There is no way he falls out of the top 7/8, and I think he probably would get picked 5th in 2013.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, what's your point?

Domi was ranked higher on most scouting lists than Horvat and was always ranked ahead of him until after the Memorial Cup. One good week and Horvat's rank jumped - he was over-picked at 9.

Yeah, and how do you say that doesn't still happen?

So your argument is that Bennett would be picked over Horvat because of his PPG, right?

So wouldn't Domi be picked over Horvat because of his PPG too? That obviously didn't happen.

Size, KHL flight risk, bad interview, who knows why the Canucks didn't choose the other players but all we can safely say is that they skipped over them. The simple fact is the 2013 had a lot of talent, and a player ranked as the 6th best North American by CSS fell down to 24th. I'll gladly take Bennett over Horvat any day but I'm not so sure you could say that about the Canucks and I'm far less sure that the Flames would take Monahan over Bennett for reasons I already said.

The 2013 was a great and talented draft by all accounts, it was going to come down to preference (maybe even need in regards to Nurse and Edmonton) once you fall below the 6th pick, in my opinion. I'd say the Oilers still pick Nurse because they want a defenseman and Bennett isn't that clear of an upgrade, it wasn't like MacKinnon had fallen to them. So 8-12 is where he would have gone in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

What is your point/ That doesn't make him a comparable to a guy that was #1 overall by CSS.

It's great that he was, but that only goes to show they were wrong. Ekblad and Reinhart, while maybe not in a tier completely above him, were far greater favourites at that number 1 spot. That's also the 2014 draft, the 2013 had easily more depth and arguably higher talent.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

It just doesn't. You're making an empty, speculative argument, ignoring the facts.

Speculative argument? On a hypothetical situation? You don't say...

You brought up Horvat's PPG, it's obviously the Canucks didn't draft him for that. You're bringing up CSS rankings while ignoring that if we went by them that Horvat would have been a late first round pick.

[mile]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

The 2013 was a great and talented draft by all accounts, it was going to come down to preference (maybe even need in regards to Nurse and Edmonton) once you fall below the 6th pick, in my opinion. I'd say the Oilers still pick Nurse because they want a defenseman and Bennett isn't that clear of an upgrade, it wasn't like MacKinnon had fallen to them. So 8-12 is where he would have gone in my opinion.

I doubt Bennett would have even fallen past 6th to begin with - The top 3/4 in 2014 may not be as good as the top 4 in 2013, but it is probably slightly better than the next tier (Lindholm, Monahan+....) in 2013.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by mile

I doubt Bennett would have even fallen past 6th to begin with - The top 3/4 in 2014 may not be as good as the top 4 in 2013, but it is probably slightly better than the next tier (Lindholm, Monahan+....) in 2013.

Well I think he's right in that conversation as well but put him below. I could see a gambler GM taking Bennett over Monahan because of the higher offensive ceiling but I do think other GM's would prefer the safe bigger center in Monahan. I'm glad the Flames didn't have to pick.

As for the Canucks and Horvat, if Horvat is that Patrice Bergeron type player they liked to compare him to and Gillis really thought that there's no way you can not pick him with the 9th overall. Maybe 29 of the other 30 GM's would have gone with someone else, but if Gillis thought he would be passing up on Bergeron with that 9th overall picking someone else he wouldn't do it regardless of who was left. And that's maybe one of the reasons he's looking for a job now.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Completely

I think the homer glasses are real. Didn't scouts say that Jones was a step higher than Ekblad? Barkov got picked before Jones. IF Bennett was as good, I feel that he would have gone first overall beating out Ekblad this year and there wouldn't have been a discussion over the top 4 this year.

Feel as if he would have gone around 9-11. Don't think he touches last years top 4. 5-7 Maybe if a team really liked him.

Florida was set down the middle and they tried to trade Ekblad but in the end took him for more organizational need rather than best player available. I think both Buffalo and Edmonton crapped the bed passing on Bennett but in Florida's case I can't blame them.

As far as Barkov goes, IMO, he's one of the most overrated #2 overall picks ever...his nickname should be big butter!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

It was central scouting and if we went with their 2013 rankings the Flames would have grabbed Shinkaruk over Monahan....

The funny thing is you could compare Horvat to multiple 2013 players and come up with the same conclusion that Horvat shouldn't have been taken 9th overall regardless of having Bennett in the draft. Yet the Canucks saw something in him that made them take him over Nichushkin, Domi, Wennenberg, Zadorov, Pulock etc. etc. I don't know what it was exactly, but it might be enough to take him over Bennett if given the chance.

Knights season ticket holder here and I can say in no way is Horvat in the same level of talent as Bennett. Horvat will be a solid NHLer but Bennett should become a true #1 centre.

[mikephoen]

Where would Bennett have been drafted if he was draft eligible in 2003?

[dying4acup]

Out of curiosity, how did Horvat and Bennett compare statistically in 2013-14?

My opinion is that Horvat was a safe pick by the Canucks (not as much upside, but low bust potential) as was necessary from an organization that just traded their #1 goalie for him.

Horvat will never be a top line center. He might be a 2nd line center. He will be no worse than a 3rd line center. I think it's almost a guarantee he will be a center. Nichushkin is already a better prospect than him. Probably Domi too. I am very tempered about Bennett's potential, but he is by far a higher upside player than Horvat.

The Horvat pick kind of reminds me of the Flames drafting Nystrom. No major prospects in the system. A good safe pick who will be an NHL player. But not worthy of where he was taken.

IMO Horvat's upside is Bennett's downside.