[PGT] Stars at Flames. Flames lose 7-3.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

When's the last time the Flames had a real, thorough, beat-the-bushes type interview process for the head coaching position? Took their time. Talked to four or five guys. Some veterans, some up-and-comers.

If there's an institutional flaw with this franchise (besides impatience), it's not casting the net wide enough for management and coaching candidates. The brain-trust seems to rely too much on guys they already know. I know all NHL teams do this to some extent, and tend to favour who they're familiar with. But it seems especially egregious with the Flames. Bringing in Burke was the first time they went outside their comfort zone. I hope that's a sign of a change in approach.

As said probably Ken King when bringing in Darryl Sutter. Playfair was handpicked as we Keenan and Brent. Not even a single head coaching interview when Darryl was the GM. The day Feaster got the GM job it was a matter of time until Hartley became the Flames head coach and of course when there was an opening a few candidates were interviewed but we all knew that the coach was selected before Brent parted ways.

I'm not even sure that Burke guarantees a thorough search as he has hired his guys in the past in Wilson and Carlyle. It's pretty evident though that this organization has been going about hiring coaches the wrong way for a long time and it's part of the reason we are in this situation of a full rebuild. Once Hartley gets fired I would really like to see a thorough coaching search with no stones unturned and a coach that maybe has never been affiliated with the organization or current GM. The buddy system never worked under Darryl or Feaster and it is a complete debacle in Edmonton.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by browna

Loss, fine.

I have a real problem though after the Stars knocked down Cammalleri, pushed around Monahan, and forced Stempniak into fighting, all on the same sequence.

No push back at all on the physical level. Why not throw McGrattan out there to stand in front of the net and or take some flagrant roughing penalty. WHo cares at that point, but the message is you can't push the Flames around in their own arena, even if the skill isnt there.

Oh, but we scored then, yay! 6-2. Oooh, then 6-3. That will show them, right?

Then, the Stars roll out a guy who's got 3 goals, and another guy with 5 points at that point, onto a meaningless PP...running up the score.

Another chance after that PP goal to show displeasure with that tactic and send a message. Nothing.

But I think, between that Flames PP goal and the end of the game, Jackman and Mcgrattan got out there once.

Ridiculous. Show some heart, don't let teams think they can roll in here and push the team around on the ice and disrespect them, no matter the score.

Smid was the only one (probably missed on TV) ready to go with a guy after that, after he hit a guy in the Flames zone, but the other player skated away.

As much as McGrattan and Jackman should've done something, Hartley gave them little to no ice time to do that. Unacceptable.

Do I remember the score from March 2004 when Sutter sent out Oliwa, Regher, Warrener and Commodore after Kostitsyn (I think) hot dogged on an EN goal? Nope. But I remember the aftermath. Simon already got kicked out for not letting an opposing player to do that to the team in its own building and took shots at him and got kicked out, and then the next faceoff, Sutter sent that quartet out against 5 Predators.

The Flames were not going to be pushed around, or disrespected that night, or any night.

Tonight, the Stars rubbed salt into the Flames wound twice, with the coach oblivious to that, trying to get back into an unwinnable game at the expense of showing the Flames as a pushover in the process.

Edit: And now seeing the pic of the Stars goalie sitting on the net like that? Garbage...but what were the Flames going to do about it? Send Stajan and Jones out to dump it in and grind out a meaningless goal (for his credit, superb work on the SH goal by Stajan)?

This. I completely agree with everything you said above.

Hartley should be blamed 100% and, in my opinion, Burke will have something to say about it. Hartley should've sent out McGratts and Jackman to pick fights and he should've told the boys to start finishing their checks. The game was unwinnable and the Stars ran up the score. It was embarrassing being a Flames fan. In 2004, Oliwa, Simon, Regehr, Warrener, Iggy , and everyone else would not have taken that.

If we want to build a winning mentality then we have to play tough as nails and not get pushed around, ever. It was so frustrating to watch.

[Dentoman]

Meh ..... not the first beating the Flames have taken, and won't be the last.

[3rd line Grinder]

Originally Posted by Dentoman

Meh ..... not the first beating the Flames have taken, and won't be the last.

I'm pretty sure everyone can agree on that. But that should not be used as an excuse for the way that game was handled yesterday in any regard. The issue at this point isnt the fact that they got blown out (though there are a lot of concerns which were contributing to it, such as the defensive play), it is the fact that they got beat that badly, especially with the amount of disrespect which the Stars showed (ex. running up the score, Lehtonen sitting on top of the net etc.) without any sort of push back.

There is a difference between taking a beating while putting up a fight and taking a beating lying down. Its called pride

[JJsChaos]

If I'm going to watch this team night in and night out get s##tkicked like this, at least bring up some of the players that are working there butts off in Abby. There are a few veterans on the team that look like they are there for a pay cheque. During the rebuild all I ask is that I don't have to watch overpaid players play with no heart. I can deal with losing, but I can't deal with lack of effort from our top players, starting with Wideman.

[Dentoman]

Originally Posted by 3rd line Grinder

There is a difference between taking a beating while putting up a fight and taking a beating lying down. Its called pride

When you realize that you just don't have the talent to compete some nights it has got to be tough .... even your pride isn't gonna get you through. Put a beating like this in the memory bank for a time when the tables are turned.
I am not sure pride is gonna be able to show up every night during a 3 year rebuild.

[Stay Golden]

Feaster and Hartley you can stop praising Bulter anytime. No he has not stepped up. Look at the last 3 games and the results since they have bumped him up to 1st pairing from 3rd. -4 he is screwing up Brodie now. Butler is crap and should be off the team.
The love towards Butler from Hartley and more importantly Feaster is sickening.
I took great delight heckling that fool all game. Everytime DAL scored and I saw Butler was on the ice I was happy it was on his watch. It is the only way these 2 are going to wake up out of their Butler stuper.
Feaster should have put him in the Smid trade. That is where hr belongs part of the Oilers awesome D.

[Day Tripper]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm not even sure that Burke guarantees a thorough search as he has hired his guys in the past in Wilson and Carlyle.

Burke never hired Ron Wilson.

[Hugh Jahrmes]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Don't see what the big deal with the goalie sitting on the net. It was an extended stoppage of play. By time the puck dropped he was in position to play.

The one showing the score and 12 seconds left on the clock tells a pretty grim story

[browna]

Originally Posted by moon

Because if McGrattan is in the penalty box who can Hartley put out there to kill any momentum they build up? After a goal you can't just throw anyone out there to get the other team back into the game.



He gave them about 10 minutes more than they deserved based on their play this year/ability.

Ha.

Just looked...after the point when Stempniak was forced to "fight" and Jones scored the next sequence, McGrattan and Jackman had 3 shifts and just over 3 mins of ice time in the last 15 minutes of the third.

If they're in the lineup, in large part to prevent the other team pushing around their smaller teammates, then Hartley should've had them out twice as much when that exact bullying situation you want to respond to, and, the rubbing of throwing the top PP on to get a 7th goal. When the situation actually and finally arises, keep sending them out until they send the appropriate message that opponents can't walk all over the Flames in their own building. Especially in a game where the result was decided halfway through the 2nd period.

Turn the negative of the game into a bit of a team unity positve longer term, by sending messages; but no Hartley rolls the lines as he did the previous 45 minutes as if nothing happened, rendering #15 & #16 and their roles, basically useless.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by The Familia

I attended this game (first live game in over two years). Can't believe I wasted $35 on a BP's ticket package (thankfully I got a beer and pizza included in the price which kinda makes up for it). I can say I will not pay to attend another game this year. I don't get how people continue to dish out large sums of money on this organization, yet the Stampeders put out a hell of a product and have trouble filling the joint. The Saddledome was quite empty in lots of areas. Glad that some people are refusing to attend.

What a crappy attitude to have. I'd be embarrassed if we couldn't fill the dome. If no one goes to the games, the team would relocate, and I don't think anyone wants that. Who cares if they're bad, can't you just be happy that you're fortunate to attend an NHL game? There's lots of people out there who would love to be able to, but can't. Win or lose, I will always go to Flames games and support the team, and I never have and never will leave the game early. I'm a proud STH and I don't care how bad this team is, I hope we sell out every game.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Day Tripper

Burke never hired Ron Wilson.

Technically yes but I believe Burke supposedly recommended Wilson to Peddie to hire Wilson who was hired to be the Leafs head coach without supposedly even interviewing another candidate which is odd. Many believe that Burke and Peddie that summer struck up a plan that when his contract was up he would join the Leafs and that's why they kept Fletcher as interim with Wilson coaching. Remember Nonis followed Burke to the Leafs shortly after from the Ducks as he had an "out clause" specifically so he could follow Burke. It appears the Leafs got away without tampering but if you do the research you can see a lot of hints that the whole Burke, Wilson, Nonis thing was predetermined by Peddie and Burke while he was still with the Ducks.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

What a crappy attitude to have. I'd be embarrassed if we couldn't fill the dome. If no one goes to the games, the team would relocate, and I don't think anyone wants that. Who cares if they're bad, can't you just be happy that you're fortunate to attend an NHL game? There's lots of people out there who would love to be able to, but can't. Win or lose, I will always go to Flames games and support the team, and I never have and never will leave the game early. I'm a proud STH and I don't care how bad this team is, I hope we sell out every game.

I don't quite understand the outcry this year. People asked and cried to have a rebuild and now that it is here they don't want to support the team? I don't get it. The Flames will probably lose another 40 games this year. It is what it is.

[SofaProfessor]

Originally Posted by Dentoman

Meh ..... not the first beating the Flames have taken, and won't be the last.

If you look at the last few seasons, the Flames are good for one big blowout loss. Not like a lineup with Iggy, Kipper and Bouwmeester were immune to getting run out of the building on occasion.

This team spoiled us by exceeding expectations the first few weeks. Everyone expected a young team like this to sit at the bottom of the league. Well, now that teams are catching their stride, you can see what a difference experience makes. There will be more painful losses this season and if you aren't expecting that as an honest fan, then you're in for a long season.

I hate seeing the Flames lose just as much as anyone else on this forum but I also realize this team, when all is said and done, will be in the bottom 8 teams this year.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

As said probably Ken King when bringing in Darryl Sutter. Playfair was handpicked as we Keenan and Brent. Not even a single head coaching interview when Darryl was the GM. The day Feaster got the GM job it was a matter of time until Hartley became the Flames head coach and of course when there was an opening a few candidates were interviewed but we all knew that the coach was selected before Brent parted ways.

I'm not even sure that Burke guarantees a thorough search as he has hired his guys in the past in Wilson and Carlyle. It's pretty evident though that this organization has been going about hiring coaches the wrong way for a long time and it's part of the reason we are in this situation of a full rebuild. Once Hartley gets fired I would really like to see a thorough coaching search with no stones unturned and a coach that maybe has never been affiliated with the organization or current GM. The buddy system never worked under Darryl or Feaster and it is a complete debacle in Edmonton.

Yeah, let Hartley coach out the year and then conduct a thorough interview process for a new coach and staff.

[cKy]

How many years did Hartley sign for/has left?

[Hockey_Ninja]

I have to agree with EE. Brent>Hartley. Yeah, I said it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by cKy

How many years did Hartley sign for/has left?

He signed a 3 year contract:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=633372

[TapeToTape]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

I took great delight heckling that fool all game. Everytime DAL scored and I saw Butler was on the ice I was happy it was on his watch.

Are you actually vocally harassing him during the game? If so, that's completely crappy. It's one thing to whine about him on the site, but to try to undermine him on the ice is not exactly fan like. People yelling things from the lower bowl have an effect. Try encouraging the team instead. Maybe your enjoyment will be more deeply satisfying.

[dino7c]

just because its a rebuild doesn't mean the team is excused for playing hard for only 10-15 mins a night. Losing is fine, its how you lose.