[PGT] Stars at Flames. Flames lose 7-3.

[moon]

Originally Posted by browna

Why not throw McGrattan out there to stand in front of the net and or take some flagrant roughing penalty. WHo cares at that point, but the message is you can't push the Flames around in their own arena, even if the skill isnt there.

Because if McGrattan is in the penalty box who can Hartley put out there to kill any momentum they build up? After a goal you can't just throw anyone out there to get the other team back into the game.

As much as McGrattan and Jackman should've done something, Hartley gave them little to no ice time to do that. Unacceptable.

He gave them about 10 minutes more than they deserved based on their play this year/ability.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I am fine with a rebuilding team but I would like an effort. The team having a bottom of the barrel payroll yet still raising ticket prices (one of the highest in the league) has really pissed me off. Almost feel like a sucker buying a ticket which is sad for a team I love

Really?

You think the Flames charge too much for their tickets and have too low of a payroll?

You should have said something about this before.

[Erick Estrada]

Flames came out of the gates and surprised some teams. They were putting out solid efforts and outplaying more talented opposition. Soon a little reality set in when the rest of the league shook off the rust and the Flames lost some close games. Not a big deal because the effort was still high which is the most fans could hope for on a rebuilding team but unfortunately Bob Hartley panicked and started tinkering with what was working. Benching players, demoting players, continually revolving the bottom defensive pair and 4th line. The roster has been continuously changing and it coincides with the Flames current stretch of 2 wins in the last 10. Now a lot of those players that were playing hard in the beginning of the season have lost their confidence and are just scared to make mistakes knowing Bob has a warm seat in the press box for certain players. Can't wait to see who he singles out for last nights game and what new 4th line and 3rd defensive pairing he comes up with for the Oilers.

I'm not going to miss Bob Hartley when he gets fired. Not the right coach for a rebuild and not an NHL head coach end of story. If you put Dallas Eakins and Bob Hartley together I'm still not sure if you have a good NHL head coach. That's how bad things are in Alberta right now.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

final thoughts on the game this morning:
- Jamie Benn is a superstar, and deserves a lot of attention
- Seguin is rounding out as was expected. This year it will be very very apparent that the oilers were dumb passing on him, and the bruins may have another thornton situation on their hands
- nasty stat out there that the flames haven't led a hockey game since Oct 26
- all that high octane play we say over the first few weeks of the season is gone. this team seems to be playing a very bad game, and mentally seem slow in every facet of the game
- i would like to see some line changes going forward that include moving backlund up, even if it is at wing, moving galiardi down in the lines, moving baertchi to a different scoring line, playing brodie/smid as the second pairing.

- when is gio back??

Rah-rah, "energy" and "hard work" are all fine and dandy when everything is fresh and you are full of naive optimism. Now that it's mid-November and we are all but officially eliminated from playoff contention, I imagine it's a lot harder to maintain the same zest for the game. It's a bad team, with mediocre goaltending, but to make things worse, Hartley is a terrible coach. How do you not manage to instill at least some semblance of a defensive system? Last year was the lockout excuse, but what about now? They still wouldn't be contenders, and I guess this is better in terms of a shot at Reinhart/Ekblad, but it's clear that Feaster's search criteria in hiring the coach was "1) must be a coach, 2) must be the godfather of my children"... I am sure he was willing to interview more people, but point (2) got in the way.

[tvp2003]

Not the first time for Lehtonen:

[saillias]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Rah-rah, "energy" and "hard work" are all fine and dandy when everything is fresh and you are full of naive optimism. Now that it's mid-November and we are all but officially eliminated from playoff contention, I imagine it's a lot harder to maintain the same zest for the game. It's a bad team, with mediocre goaltending, but to make things worse, Hartley is a terrible coach. How do you not manage to instill at least some semblance of a defensive system? Last year was the lockout excuse, but what about now? They still wouldn't be contenders, and I guess this is better in terms of a shot at Reinhart/Ekblad, but it's clear that Feaster's search criteria in hiring the coach was "1) must be a coach, 2) must be the godfather of my children"... I am sure he was willing to interview more people, but point (2) got in the way.

No doubt... Luckily Burke was added into the equation, and Hartley and Feaster are not "his" guys.

[Robbob]

Don't see what the big deal with the goalie sitting on the net. It was an extended stoppage of play. By time the puck dropped he was in position to play.

[bubbsy]

as a flames fan, i'm basically lost as to what a good coach looks like for this team.

is it a defense first systems type guy (tippet'ish, b.sutter), is he a mentoring type coach (renny/kreuger).

The best coach we've seen in cgy in decades was darryl sutter. He was able to get more out of a roster than the sum of its parts. Heck, he got stars to buy in, and went on to win a cup in LA.

i'm tired of bad coaching being a plot-line year in and year out, regardless of whether it's warranted

[Vinny01]

I am not blaming the coaching. The flames roster is absolute garbage and is a last place team on paper. This was probably the worst game of the season and it was game 19.

It is easy for the opposition to be Calgary. We caught teams early with the strong work ethic but if the opposition comes to work the flames are in tough to win

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am not blaming the coaching. The flames roster is absolute garbage and is a last place team on paper. This was probably the worst game of the season and it was game 19.

It is easy for the opposition to be Calgary. We caught teams early with the strong work ethic but if the opposition comes to work the flames are in tough to win

This Flames team was going to finish at the bottom of the standings regardless of the coach but it's important going forward that players games are improving and that the losing doesn't become a culture. I tend to look at Hartley's record with a Flames team last season that was supposed to challenge for a playoff spot. They loaded up with Wideman and Hudler and Hartley bombed as the team never looked good at any time of the shortened schedule. Defensively it was the worst Flames team I have ever seen. So we have seen him fail miserably with a team that was aimed at making the playoffs and now the rebuilding team under him after a good start has started taking water, defensively at the bottom of the league again. He's playing mind games with young players all while giving underperforming veteran players free rides. His methodology of working through tough stretches seems to be more about punishing certain players instead of trying to work hard on improving team defense and working with guys that are having a tough time. You could see when they lost a few games after the quick start that instead of trying to keep things together and working with players to get though any issues he immediately began sending players to the press box and rotating the 3rd defensive pairing and 4th line nearly every night. That's not good coaching IMO.

There's also the distinct whiff of Keenan in how he seems to have his guys and guys that aren't his guys are going to be whipping boys. Seems the same players are getting singled out for poor overall team efforts while other players can play like trash and never see consequences. On what team in the NHL is Brian McGratton a full time player? Come on Bob get it together man! Maybe that can work with a top team full of talent but I'm not sure that's the approach you take when you are trying to rebuild and bring young players along with this yo-yo approach as it doesn't build confidence.

[Badgers Nose]

WTH happened to the work ethic this team had?

Also, please flay the person who drew up the plan for the 'I will rush while everyone stands at the offensive blue line waiting, and I'll execute a blind drop pass' non-sense.

It hardly ever works resulting in
1. a turn over or
2. and awkward reception of the pass

it usually results in
1. a dump in, but with everyone standing there is no puck pressure or forecheck
2. a neutral zone turnover with Flames standing still watching the other team attack

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Hugh Jahrmes

From reddit. Depressing

IF Jackman and McGratton are still on our team the next time we play them, you got to run this mother. haha

[JobHopper]

Hopefully the team can recover from such an embarrassing, humiliating beat down on home ice. May have to be bring in a special sports psychologist for the team to carry on and continue the season.

Must be tough for coach Hartley to want to win and having to work with a GM like Feaster who seems to be out to lunch on what an NHL player should look like.

Sven Baertschi had an assist last night but he simply isn't NHL ready. He's like a broomstick on skates out there.

Chris Butler a -4, ouch. But when the whole team is a collective -21 that is some kind of ugly.

Matt Stajan had 2 goals so I guess that's a positive. And please, can we put to rest the illusion that some people here have that Backlund is better than Stajan? Not even close.

Saturday will be a very interesting and telling game in how the Flames come back and respond after this debacle.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

There's also the distinct whiff of Keenan in how he seems to have his guys and guys that aren't his guys are going to be whipping boys. Seems the same players are getting singled out for poor overall team efforts while other players can play like trash and never see consequences. On what team in the NHL is Brian McGratton a full time player? Come on Bob get it together man! Maybe that can work with a top team full of talent but I'm not sure that's the approach you take when you are trying to rebuild and bring young players along with this yo-yo approach as it doesn't build confidence.

Meanwhile, guys like Blair Jones are wondering exactly what they have to do to get a spot in the lineup.

Be one of the hardest working players in camp? Check.
Play well and be one of the best players in Abbotsford? (this year and last year) Check.

I remember the Bowman philosophy on handing out ice time. For the first 10 minutes of every game, everyone got a fair shake and the guys who were working the hardest and playing the best ended up getting the most icetime throughout the game.

That would be the ideal "meritocracy".

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

as a flames fan, i'm basically lost as to what a good coach looks like for this team.

When's the last time the Flames had a real, thorough, beat-the-bushes type interview process for the head coaching position? Took their time. Talked to four or five guys. Some veterans, some up-and-comers.

If there's an institutional flaw with this franchise (besides impatience), it's not casting the net wide enough for management and coaching candidates. The brain-trust seems to rely too much on guys they already know. I know all NHL teams do this to some extent, and tend to favour who they're familiar with. But it seems especially egregious with the Flames. Bringing in Burke was the first time they went outside their comfort zone. I hope that's a sign of a change in approach.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

When's the last time the Flames had a real, thorough, beat-the-bushes type interview process for the head coaching position? Took their time. Talked to four or five guys. Some veterans, some up-and-comers.

If there's an institutional flaw with this franchise (besides impatience), it's not casting the net wide enough for management and coaching candidates. The brain-trust seems to rely too much on guys they already know. I know all NHL teams do this to some extent, and tend to favour who they're familiar with. But it seems especially egregious with the Flames. Bringing in Burke was the first time they went outside their comfort zone. I hope that's a sign of a change in approach.

it's a good point.

Though not sure burke is a guy who's not guilty of hiring people he's worked with in the past (nonis, carlyle as immediate examples).

[saillias]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

When's the last time the Flames had a real, thorough, beat-the-bushes type interview process for the head coaching position? Took their time. Talked to four or five guys. Some veterans, some up-and-comers.

If there's an institutional flaw with this franchise (besides impatience), it's not casting the net wide enough for management and coaching candidates. The brain-trust seems to rely too much on guys they already know. I know all NHL teams do this to some extent, and tend to favour who they're familiar with. But it seems especially egregious with the Flames. Bringing in Burke was the first time they went outside their comfort zone. I hope that's a sign of a change in approach.

Darryl Sutter, I think. Took ages to finally hire him.

[t0rrent98]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Not the first time for Lehtonen:

Thats awesome. How long did he do that for last night? Or was it just between breaks. Think ima try that one day... Haha.

[Enoch Root]

One thing that has become really evident in the last couple games is that the Flames have all but dropped their transition game.

One of the reasons they were successful early was that, when they got the puck they took off. They kept it simple and moved forward with speed at every opportunity.

Lately, they have reverted to the style of the last couple years: circle back, drop passes, guys standing still in the neutral zone.

The Flames really aren't good at passing the puck. It is incredible how often they miss the mark. So when they are standing still or circling back, a bad pass turns the puck and momentum the other way.

When they were keeping it simple and moving it forward, it at least kept the other team on their heels. So even when they did turn it over, it didn't result in an immediate transitional threat the other way.

Oh, and I completely agree with the poster (EE?) that said Hartley's constant tinkering has resulted in confusion and hesitant play.

[Rerun]

So Calgary ended up losing 7-3 eh? I turned the game off at about the 13 minute mark of the 2nd period when Calgary was down 5-0.

Worst game ever at that point. I felt sorry for those who forked out $$$ to sit in the stands and watch in person.