Sutter is the problem

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Looks like the Sutter mantra of just get in to the playoffs is pretty solid now.

Eh. While it is true that anything can happen in the playoffs, I don’t think that’s the mentality you should have when building a team. More often than not the results for the Flames with this mentality have been either finishing just outside of the playoffs or going no further than the 2nd round if we’re lucky. 04 runs aren’t a regular occurrence

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by zamler

This is about the most frustrating argument on this forum. It is possible (and true IMO) that Sutter in the past was one of the best coaches ever and now his tactics are no longer working.

Darryl has no middle ground he either inspires and wins Cups or teams get so fed up they lock their own coach out of the locker room and soon after he gets fired.

Sure that is 100% possible and if we had a quality roster and still had these results then I think it would be clear that was the case. But for last season the results matched the mediocre quality of the players. We finished right around where you would expect this team to finish fighting for one of the last play-off spots because the players just aren't that good.

Now it is possible that Sutter's methods have worn out their welcome with this team but it is hard to say that was the problem last year when the roster is so weak.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Sure that is 100% possible and if we had a quality roster and still had these results then I think it would be clear that was the case. But for last season the results matched the mediocre quality of the players. We finished right around where you would expect this team to finish fighting for one of the last play-off spots because the players just aren't that good.

Now it is possible that Sutter's methods have worn out their welcome with this team but it is hard to say that was the problem last year when the roster is so weak.

I still think that for the most part, the skaters are fine. If Markstrom has only a bad season, and not a terrible season, the Flames are comfortably in a playoff spot.

Sutter hurts the team more in terms of development than he does in immediate performance.

[Jiffy Loob]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Then don’t come back….Walk away from your multi million dollars contracts it will sure help our cap crunch - I’m sure it’s a quick process to cancel a contract ask Richards, Kane and those are dark water scenarios… Imagine a breach of contract.. Easy. I’m calling the bluff - file your grievance that you don’t like your coach, Gary won’t punish his owners.

Coach don’t score goals and Coach don’t make saves.

This organization has allowed the accountability to rest on the coach way to many times. Time for these players to shape up or ship out I don’t care if you got two years left or six .

This mentality seems pervasive in the entire organization. Look at how many players (and really good ones too) preferred to walk from the Flames. For what it is worth, Frank Seravalli said the Flames are considered one of the most “player unfriendly organizations in the league” by NHL players league-wide.

A culture change is needed and required. Players don’t want to play in Calgary unless the team is winning.

[Vinny01]

Salim the TSN reporter just dropped the eyeball emoji on Twitter. I am sure he would love to hear Sutter is parting ways with the org

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I still think that for the most part, the skaters are fine. If Markstrom has only a bad season, and not a terrible season, the Flames are comfortably in a playoff spot.

Sutter hurts the team more in terms of development than he does in immediate performance.

I think the players are fine to be a bottom half play-off team that is a looking at best to have a 50/50 first round play-off series. The skaters are not close to what the top teams in the league have, they are not a contending level team with or without Markstrom ####ting the bed. I think any harm Sutter does in alienating certain players, he does good in providing structure to help keep the team in games they wouldn't under a different coach.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Sure that is 100% possible and if we had a quality roster and still had these results then I think it would be clear that was the case. But for last season the results matched the mediocre quality of the players. We finished right around where you would expect this team to finish fighting for one of the last play-off spots because the players just aren't that good.

Now it is possible that Sutter's methods have worn out their welcome with this team but it is hard to say that was the problem last year when the roster is so weak.

WTF??? A weak roster?

Turned a Vezina candidate into pumpkin. Markstrom admitted his head was not in the right space and Sutter continued to ride him and destroy what confidence he had left.

Turned a 115 point top of the heap LW into a 60 point RW who struggled with the dump and chase game. One of the best east-west players in the game was sledgehammered into a north-south game and the results were obvious. Huberdeau has said all the right things about the coach but another season in the same situation is going to generate similar results.

Took a heart and soul player for the previous Stanley Cup winner and turned him into a divisive player who ended up quitting down the stretch. Kadri is a dick and hates to lose, a quality supposedly everyone wants on the team. But the game became so frustrating and so devoid of joy the guy mailed it down the stretch.

Took a 35 goal scorer and turned him into an other pumpkin, MIA most of the season. Unless Mangiapane did his shoulder in the pre-season and didn't say anything all year there is more than injury here. Every aspect of Mangiapane's game was #### and little was done to help him find his way.

Took one of the top centers in the game, a 40 goal scorer, and misused him all season long, never giving him opportunity to do what he does best and draining all of the joy from the game to where he doesn't want to come back. The loss of Lindholm is going to haunt this team as there is no one in the system that fill that gap.

Took the latest version of Mr. Calgary Flame, the guy a lot of this board wanted to be captain, and has made it to where he doesn't want to come back. Backlund's garbage day interview was the most difficult to hear because so many thought he would be a Flame for life, but instead he wants to move on to greener pastures.

And so on and so on. Won't touch on the defense that turned into a sieve or the young guys that showed promise only to sit in the pressbox. The only guys that performed well were interested in coming back were the guys who won a cup with him in Los Angeles - a DECADE ago.

This WAS a Darryl Sutter team and it performed like a Darryl Sutter team. The results were consistent because he never adjusted anything. This is all on Sutter. He took a team many writers were suggesting had the potential to be a Stanley Cup contender and turned them into wallflower at the NHL dance. This is on him. PERIOD.

[Sainters7]

If Sutter truly is gone, it makes losing Treliving even more perplexing. What a mess this team has been ever since that Greaser series..

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

WTF??? A weak roster?

Turned a Vezina candidate into pumpkin. Markstrom admitted his head was not in the right space and Sutter continued to ride him and destroy what confidence he had left.

Turned a 115 point top of the heap LW into a 60 point RW who struggled with the dump and chase game. One of the best east-west players in the game was sledgehammered into a north-south game and the results were obvious. Huberdeau has said all the right things about the coach but another season in the same situation is going to generate similar results.

Took a heart and soul player for the previous Stanley Cup winner and turned him into a divisive player who ended up quitting down the stretch. Kadri is a dick and hates to lose, a quality supposedly everyone wants on the team. But the game became so frustrating and so devoid of joy the guy mailed it down the stretch.

Took a 35 goal scorer and turned him into an other pumpkin, MIA most of the season. Unless Mangiapane did his shoulder in the pre-season and didn't say anything all year there is more than injury here. Every aspect of Mangiapane's game was #### and little was done to help him find his way.

Took one of the top centers in the game, a 40 goal scorer, and misused him all season long, never giving him opportunity to do what he does best and draining all of the joy from the game to where he doesn't want to come back. The loss of Lindholm is going to haunt this team as there is no one in the system that fill that gap.

Took the latest version of Mr. Calgary Flame, the guy a lot of this board wanted to be captain, and has made it to where he doesn't want to come back. Backlund's garbage day interview was the most difficult to hear because so many thought he would be a Flame for life, but instead he wants to move on to greener pastures.

And so on and so on. Won't touch on the defense that turned into a sieve or the young guys that showed promise only to sit in the pressbox. The only guys that performed well were interested in coming back were the guys who won a cup with him in Los Angeles - a DECADE ago.

This WAS a Darryl Sutter team and it performed like a Darryl Sutter team. The results were consistent because he never adjusted anything. This is all on Sutter. He took a team many writers were suggesting had the potential to be a Stanley Cup contender and turned them into wallflower at the NHL dance. This is on him. PERIOD.

Markstrom has had an inconsistent career before last season and was great under Sutter the year before blaming Sutter for his fall off without any actual reason is pretty weak.

115 winger was his peak performance not what should be expected from him but it sounds better when trying to crap on Sutter. That said even from his expected 80-90 career production Hubredeau clearly had a down year. How much that is due to Sutter is certainly up for debate. There isn't a single player, let alone two to make up a line, that ever fit with Hubredeau which is the fault of the GM who did a terrible job of team building and having players that fit together or made sense. Sutter did the best he could with a mish mash of meh forwards and Hubredeau didn't help by spending more time sulking than working on figuring out how he could fit into a new situation.

Kadri falling off was clear to everyone which is why he was available so late into the FA period because teams knew not to give him the stupid contract he was demanding. Blaming Sutter for Kadri being lazy is silly. That is on Kadri.

Mangiapane is a streaky player that can put up good stats then do nothing for long periods because he is more heart than skill. Throw in the injury and his season is not that surprising.

This is a team with a roster that should have finished somewhere between 6th-10th in the West, they finished 9th so near the bottom of expectations which is why I have no problem if the team moves on from Sutter, but to pretend that the issue is the coaching not the terrible roster construction is just blind homerism at its finest. This team has major roster issues from both the actual talent they have and how that talent works with each other.

Personally I think that the solution is to move on from Sutter and make major roster adjustments but if the team is only going to do one of those things changes to the roster is much more important than just changing the coach and hoping the next guy can get more out of these players than they have to give.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

If Sutter truly is gone, it makes losing Treliving even more perplexing. What a mess this team has been ever since that Greaser series..

Why?

Is there any reason to think that Sutter being coach is the main, or even any, reason that Treliving left? Reports seem to say that Treliving was given the chance to fire Sutter if he wanted and that Treliving wanted Sutter as coach before he was hired.

[Bingo]

Man I find the ditch to ditch arguments around the guy tiresome.

He annoyed the hell out of me. He made plenty of mistakes. He was brutal with the media.

But some key players had terrible seasons on their own. Blaming it all on the coach is ignoring a much bigger problem.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Why?



Is there any reason to think that Sutter being coach is the main, or even any, reason that Treliving left? Reports seem to say that Treliving was given the chance to fire Sutter if he wanted and that Treliving wanted Sutter as coach before he was hired.

I haven't kept up with the daily developments with this the past few days anymore as it's too frustrating/depressing with the state the team is in, but the last I heard from the rumour mill before tapping out was that Treliving didn't have control over if Sutter would be back or not. Interesting if that has changed...what a mess.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Man I find the ditch to ditch arguments around the guy tiresome.

He annoyed the hell out of me. He made plenty of mistakes. He was brutal with the media.

But some key players had terrible seasons on their own. Blaming it all on the coach is ignoring a much bigger problem.

I don't know, I think Sutters decisions definitely magnified player issues. I'd wager that his designs made the player performances worse than they would have been.

Nothing felt right this year, there wasn't a point where it felt like they were a save or a goal away from turning it all around.

I did say it all season though, it was a good year for a down year. And should have been expected more than a playoff push.

But all the smoke around Sutter reeks. Somethings not right for sure. Players or the coaches. There's a lot of work internally that needs to be done.

At least expectations will be lowered next season, or should be.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Salim the TSN reporter just dropped the eyeball emoji on Twitter. I am sure he would love to hear Sutter is parting ways with the org

He just tweeted this out. Doesn't seem eye emoji worthy to me

https://twitter.com/user/status/1653032947853950979

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Man I find the ditch to ditch arguments around the guy tiresome.

He annoyed the hell out of me. He made plenty of mistakes. He was brutal with the media.

But some key players had terrible seasons on their own. Blaming it all on the coach is ignoring a much bigger problem.

We all know hardass coaches lose the room at some point. That leads to players having terrible seasons. That’s a problem

A guy with decent inside information said Sutter was a big reason 13 and 19 left. You hear 11 and 28 on garbage bag day? That’s a big problem

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

He just tweeted this out. Doesn't seem eye emoji worthy to me

https://twitter.com/user/status/1653032947853950979

Agreed. I miss Jermaine I have not liked Salim at all since he came to the market. The guy has no clue

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Agreed. I miss Jermaine I have not liked Salim at all since he came to the market. The guy has no clue

Yeah he's an idiot and I don't thin he would ever have breaking news.

He seemed like a loner at the Iggy event no one was talking to him he was just looking at his phone.

Now trying to rip off Ryan Leslie.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Spurs

This is a team with a roster that should have finished somewhere between 6th-10th in the West, they finished 9th so near the bottom of expectations which is why I have no problem if the team moves on from Sutter, but to pretend that the issue is the coaching not the terrible roster construction is just blind homerism at its finest.

Before the season started, peoples expectations (including the so called experts) felt Calgary was a contender to win the West.

Especially since they were playing in hockey's weakest division, the playoffs seemed a certainty.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You think the Kraken are going to win the cup? Even if the mantra has merit he didn't get his team into the playoffs so what's the point?

Florida and Seattle should just pass and go home now. Let Toronto and Dallas take it from here. EE has spoken.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

We all know hardass coaches lose the room at some point. That leads to players having terrible seasons. That’s a problem

Maybe guys playing terribly are the cause not the effect.