Sutter is the problem

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by All In Good Time

Listen
I’ll repeat it again
Pay attention this time

“Of all the things Sutter is, cowardly and irresponsible are not among them.”

I backed it up by referencing his professional accomplishments and personal life.

My mistake was assuming “people like you” could catch the subtleties of my post

To be fair PW makes lots of good points about Sutter, but saying "cowardly and irresponsible" are just attempts to get that point accross. Sutter has caused some friction between the players, managment and the organization. Flames need to take a serious look at what kind of coach is needed to accomplish the organizations short and long term goals.

If Treliving was not able to stand up to Sutter to support the players, "including the young players coming up", then that is a problem going forward. Some of the players could have shown up like they were paid to but maybe it was overall a pretty bad work environment.

[Infinit47]

Anybody read this:

https://thehockeywriters.com/multipl...utter-returns/

Dreger says there are players under contract who will not return if Sutter is still coach.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Anybody read this:

https://thehockeywriters.com/multipl...utter-returns/

Dreger says there are players under contract who will not return if Sutter is still coach.

Then don’t come back….Walk away from your multi million dollars contracts it will sure help our cap crunch - I’m sure it’s a quick process to cancel a contract ask Richards, Kane and those are dark water scenarios… Imagine a breach of contract.. Easy. I’m calling the bluff - file your grievance that you don’t like your coach, Gary won’t punish his owners.

Coach don’t score goals and Coach don’t make saves.

This organization has allowed the accountability to rest on the coach way to many times. Time for these players to shape up or ship out I don’t care if you got two years left or six .

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Then don’t come back….Walk away from your multi million dollars contracts it will sure help our cap crunch - I’m sure it’s a quick process to cancel a contract ask Richards, Kane and those are dark water scenarios… Imagine a breach of contract.. Easy. I’m calling the bluff - file your grievance that you don’t like your coach, Gary won’t punish his owners.

Coach don’t score goals and Coach don’t make saves.

This organization has allowed the accountability to rest on the coach way to many times. Time for these players to shape up or ship out I don’t care if you got two years left or six .

If the news spreads big group of players want out, it will not be good attracting free agents or drafting players here in the future. Move Sutter to an advisor role and bring in Love. No coach is bigger than the team.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

If the news spreads big group of players want out, it will not be good attracting free agents or drafting players here in the future. Move Sutter to an advisor role and bring in Love. No coach is bigger than the team.

I understand your point but I counter and tell you that there are 32 teams in the NHL 700~ jobs available. If you want to be in the best league in the world you aren’t saying “I’m good thanks” because of a coach. Didn’t stop Coronato. Does it look like it’s effecting Pelletier? This is a false narrative - Huberdeau, Kadri and Weegar all signed contracts knowing he was the coach. If a guy doesn’t want to be here because of a coach then don’t sign the contract.

If someone doesn’t want to sign a contract in 5 years because Darryl Sutter was the coach, he wasn’t going to sign that contract anyways.

You will find multiple players who would love to play here regardless of the coach.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by Sec214

This thread is dumb.

The thread is dumb. But a LOT - really a LOT - of the comments, bickering and outright babyish behaviour here is.

"My daddy is bigger'n your daddy"
"No he isn't"
"Prove it"
"No, you prove it ya idiot"
"Hey, who you calling an idiot?"

FM. I thought most children stopped this around Grade 2. Apparently not.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

The thread is dumb. But a LOT - really a LOT - of the comments, bickering and outright babyish behaviour here is.

"My daddy is bigger'n your daddy"
"No he isn't"
"Prove it"
"No, you prove it ya idiot"
"Hey, who you calling an idiot?"

FM. I thought most children stopped this around Grade 2. Apparently not.

Thank you for your contribution. We appreciate it around here.

[Joborule]

To add on to a few posts up, I'm also of the belief that you gotta have a coach that fits the identity of the team you want to ice. If Sutter is that coach for the organization presently - which I would assume is the case - then you have to have players that want to play for that coach. If there's a number of players on the roster that don't, then you get rid of the those players, and bring in those who do.

You can't be letting players dictate who should be the coach or not, unless they earn that privilege. That would be through being a generational player, or having multiple seasons of success (multiple playoff series victories through multiple years) that indicates that the roster/core is good, and the coaching change could make a positive impact. The Flames roster as is doesn't have a generational player that you can give that sort of leverage to, and the roster hasn't had the consistent results over the past several seasons to have that amount of clout.

So Sutter should at least be the coach for one more season, and the players that don't want to stick around, ship them out. There needs to be a culture change in the locker room, and that starts with the players.

My hope is that there is enough roster turnover, that the young players in the organization get spots by default on the roster, and can prove they are full time NHLs. Don't give Sutter the option of picking the vets, and not having patience with the youth.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

If the news spreads big group of players want out, it will not be good attracting free agents or drafting players here in the future. Move Sutter to an advisor role and bring in Love. No coach is bigger than the team.

Doubtful. Sutter might be the coach now and maybe next year but this isn't going to be him behind the bench in Calgary until he's 70. Sure he's old school but he isn't asking anyone to move mountains. Sometimes pieces just don't work together and I get that but at the end of the day everyone should have the same goal. Work hard. Earn that cheque. Win.

[Flamesfan05]

Multiple Stanley cups. Coach of the year.
But yeah a bunch of guys that have never won anything should dictate the team's direction

[activeStick]

Iginla's comments about Keenan being one of the best coaches he's had in the NHL is quite the contrast from most fans critiques of Keenan as an NHL bench boss

Different eras though

https://twitter.com/user/status/1652390894853603330

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Then don’t come back….Walk away from your multi million dollars contracts it will sure help our cap crunch - I’m sure it’s a quick process to cancel a contract ask Richards, Kane and those are dark water scenarios… Imagine a breach of contract.. Easy. I’m calling the bluff - file your grievance that you don’t like your coach, Gary won’t punish his owners.

Coach don’t score goals and Coach don’t make saves.

This organization has allowed the accountability to rest on the coach way to many times. Time for these players to shape up or ship out I don’t care if you got two years left or six .

From what I saw for most of the year this group of players is not capable of winning a championship. So if they want to walk away it’s probably a good thing for the organization in the long run.

[thetruefan]

Shure hope Sutter is back.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Iginla's comments about Keenan being one of the best coaches he's had in the NHL is quite the contrast from most fans critiques of Keenan as an NHL bench boss

Different eras though

https://twitter.com/user/status/1652390894853603330

Kinda makes sense since Sutter was as close as he ever had to get to a cup and Keenan as I remember despite his reputation as a taskmaster was fairly unstructured when it came to coaching the Flames and gave his stars a lot of leeway. Wasn't Keenan the one who said he never practiced the powerplay and he built the team with an emphasis on team fitness during the years when Iginla was always the fittest flame?
I also remember towards the end of Iginlas time here when the coach was asking him to be more of a 200ft player ala Yzerman and he told the media that he didn't think that was what the team needed from him and pushed back on it.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by Goriders

From what I saw for most of the year this group of players is not capable of winning a championship. So if they want to walk away it’s probably a good thing for the organization in the long run.

Before the season started most pundits were picking the Flames as a cup favorite. So what caused a team with so much potential to crash and burn so badly?
Sutter got his jack adams on the back of 2 forwards that played in a contract season and promptly left the organization as soon as they could as well as a goalie that went from vezina quality to being half of one of the worst tandems in the league. Cant blame him for the tenders but did this team last year succeed because of him or on thr back of two players to despite him? That's an honest question to ask at this point.

[flamesgod]

Looks like the Sutter mantra of just get in to the playoffs is pretty solid now.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Multiple Stanley cups. Coach of the year.
But yeah a bunch of guys that have never won anything should dictate the team's direction

This is about the most frustrating argument on this forum. It is possible (and true IMO) that Sutter in the past was one of the best coaches ever and now his tactics are no longer working.

Darryl has no middle ground he either inspires and wins Cups or teams get so fed up they lock their own coach out of the locker room and soon after he gets fired.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Then don’t come back….Walk away from your multi million dollars contracts it will sure help our cap crunch - I’m sure it’s a quick process to cancel a contract ask Richards, Kane and those are dark water scenarios… Imagine a breach of contract.. Easy. I’m calling the bluff - file your grievance that you don’t like your coach, Gary won’t punish his owners.

Coach don’t score goals and Coach don’t make saves.

This organization has allowed the accountability to rest on the coach way to many times. Time for these players to shape up or ship out I don’t care if you got two years left or six .

While I appreciate your point, canceling the contracts of UFA’s to be means the Flames get nothing for those players. Better to trade them for value.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Looks like the Sutter mantra of just get in to the playoffs is pretty solid now.

No. What’s the goal? To win the Stanley Cup.

Getting to the second round isn’t enough.

Also, show me a Flames team with a Barkov and an Ekblad on their roster (and a Bennett and a Tkachuk). I’d love to see that.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flamesgod

Looks like the Sutter mantra of just get in to the playoffs is pretty solid now.

You think the Kraken are going to win the cup? Even if the mantra has merit he didn't get his team into the playoffs so what's the point?