[Trade] Flames trade 15th OA, 45th OA, and 52nd OA for Dougie Hamilton

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

The game I mentioned previously in this thread in Tampa Wideman had 6:20 of PP time. Hamilton had zero. Hamilton played ok that game, Wideman was pretty bad and was a -2.

I'm not going to sit here and bash Hartley, but that seems pretty wacky to me.

Also, I believe it was Ari from FN that pointed out he was mostly benched in the 3rd period vs WSH, where we coughed up a 2 goal lead. And it's not just Dougie he's misplaying.... it feels more like a good third of the Flames roster at this point.

If Hartley keeps going contrary to CP expectations, I'm just gonna invent some nonsense bull stat for us just to keep track of how off the rails he's going. Quantifiable and measurable, but still nonsense.

[ScorchyScorch]

This thread confuses me.

It was a great deal. It still is. Nothing has changed in that regard.

We dealt for Hamilton's future potential, not his immediate impact for this season specifically. Why are people getting upset that it's not paying immediate dividends? Clearly did not understand the point of the trade from day one.

It's the equivalent of getting upset that Bennett isn't a first line center already. "But Sam is only 19".. And d-men take longer to develop into NHLers. Have some damn patience.

[adc]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Hey not saying his defensive coaching game is perfect but he's doing the right thing with Hamilton. Easing his ice time to fifth and giving him the most sheltered minutes. Hamilton hasn't shown he deserves anything more ice time and certainly hasn't fought for more minutes.

He's got potential but let's not pretend he's been anything short of average to awful in his short tenure with the Flames. Calling him the second best d-man so far on the year is so out of reality. He's been 4th best at the very best and IMO him and Russell are pretty close this season with Wideman obviously being the worst of the bunch.

He has been much better than awful and I will say that much of him being the 2nd best is based on how awful the other guys have been not because he has been awesome.

I would say this year I would give guys grades out of ten:

Brodie-8, Hamilton and Engelland- 5, Gio and Russell-2.5, Wideman- 1.

So it isn't like I think Hamilton has been awesome this year just not as bad as the other 3 and Engelland is a bottom pairing guy limited by what he can do.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by adc

I don't understand this line of thinking.

Gio just got a huge deal bigger than Hamiltons so why would he care? Wideman makes the same and has a deal that most reports have as being untradable. Engelland is overpaid according to most people so he should be good with his deal. Russell is an upcoming g UFA so should be jacked that defensemen are getting big deals.

That leaves Brodie as the one guy who could be pissed and he has been very good to great this year.

I also can't see Hamilton feeling overburdened by getting the deal he asked for and was traded out of Boston because they wouldn't give it to him.

I think it is understandable that if you suddenly pay a young player more than he is worth for his present stage of development, it may create undue pressure on him to perform.

Also, my thinking is if you put the emphasis on size, and Hamilton would fit into that category, it may affect players like Russell, Hudler, etc. The size emphasis is also evident in giving away a contributor like Byron, whose absence I believe is contributing to our poor PK.

[adc]

Lol Byron???

Is there anything that guy can't do (other than making an NHL roster)?

I disagree with the idea that Hamiltons contract is making guys play bad. It seems like trying to find an easy solution that isn't the players just aren't good enough.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by adc

Lol Byron???

Is there anything that guy can't do (other than making an NHL roster)?

I disagree with the idea that Hamiltons contract is making guys play bad. It seems like trying to find an easy solution that isn't the players just aren't good enough.

I think you have to admit that something has taken the heart and confidence out of this team.

To find the answer you have to examine what has changed this year.

1. Hamilton added with large contract

2. Byron was put on waivers and claimed by one of the top teams in the NHL

3. Injuries to Brodie, Ferland, Bouma and Hiller recently

4. Absence of younger players brought up to try and make the team

[adc]

Last year was a no pressure, balls to the wall effort. That a. Is easy to do when no pressure on and b. Takes a lot out of you.

Last year they got a ton of bounces and good fortune that makes a big difference.

I have a hard time believing that Hamiltons contract and a guy that 95% of the league passed on and the team that picked him up prefers in the press box are involved in our goalies save percentage being sub .900.

[FiveSeven]

Well the forwards seem fine, some slump, others rise, should be better though still.

The Defense and Goalies are the cause of all the woes.

Last Season / This Season - Point/60

Gio - 1.88 / 0.79
Wideman - 1.70 / 1.08
Brodie - 1.20 / 1.21
Russell - 1.08 / 0.39

Combine that with sub .900, that affects the whole team, obviously. Sometimes the simplest and most logical explanation is the right one. Trying to theory craft excuses just seems silly.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Its honestly ridiculous that some people are already wishing we had our picks instead of dougie. None of the players picked with our picks are in the league yet or will arguably play more or greater hockey than dougie when they do.

we made the deal. its a good one. so good many gms were upset not to know it was happening or dougie was even on the market. he is a extremely young dman who can turn into our future top 2 guy with tj. people need to relax.

[flamesfever]

go

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Well the forwards seem fine, some slump, others rise, should be better though still.

The Defense and Goalies are the cause of all the woes.

Last Season / This Season - Point/60

Gio - 1.88 / 0.79
Wideman - 1.70 / 1.08
Brodie - 1.20 / 1.21
Russell - 1.08 / 0.39

Combine that with sub .900, that affects the whole team, obviously. Sometimes the simplest and most logical explanation is the right one. Trying to theory craft excuses just seems silly.

Why do you think the defense and goalies are suddenly playing much poorer this year? There has to be some "logical explanation". I don't believe you can chalk it up to higher expectation or lack of Lady Luck. And it's difficult to conceive that the players natural playing ability has suddenly disappeared.

IMO it's an overall confidence, chemistry thing caused by a number of changes to the team, however subtle and minor in nature.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

go

Why do you think the defense and goalies are suddenly playing much poorer this year? There has to be some "logical explanation". I don't believe you can chalk it up to higher expectation or lack of Lady Luck. And it's difficult to conceive that the players natural playing ability has suddenly disappeared.

IMO it's an overall confidence, chemistry thing caused by a number of changes to the team, however subtle and minor in nature.

No, it's their best player from last season playing like a shell of his former self. It's Wideman taking a step back.

Those two guys play anything close to last season and this team is in much better shape, especially Gio. He's been terrible at both ends of the ice.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Don't forget Russell's regression.

Also, the goalies.

Also, Monahan and Hudler.


Also...this list could get pretty long....

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Don't forget Russell's regression.

Also, the goalies.

Also, Monahan and Hudler.


Also...this list could get pretty long....

Maybe Hartley is regressing

[adc]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

go

Why do you think the defense and goalies are suddenly playing much poorer this year? There has to be some "logical explanation". I don't believe you can chalk it up to higher expectation or lack of Lady Luck. And it's difficult to conceive that the players natural playing ability has suddenly disappeared.

IMO it's an overall confidence, chemistry thing caused by a number of changes to the team, however subtle and minor in nature.

Because they are below average goalies so when things aren't going right for them it is going to look bad.

Couple that in with a defensive group that is playing bad across the board or more likely not playing above their heads like last year and it is a recipe for success.

It is clear you love Byron but teams have lost guys light years more important than him and been fine. You trying to shoe horn him missing from this team is embarrassing. The team is better with him not here.

Likewise there have been countless big deals signed by young guys that teams have been fine with.

Last year Calgary had an inordinate amount of guys have career years and this year they have a bunch having below average years.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by adc

Because they are below average goalies so when things aren't going right for them it is going to look bad.

Couple that in with a defensive group that is playing bad across the board or more likely not playing above their heads like last year and it is a recipe for success.

It is clear you love Byron but teams have lost guys light years more important than him and been fine. You trying to shoe horn him missing from this team is embarrassing. The team is better with him not here.

Likewise there have been countless big deals signed by young guys that teams have been fine with.

Last year Calgary had an inordinate amount of guys have career years and this year they have a bunch having below average years.

Not going to do the work but: Hall, Eberle, RHN, Landeskog, Duchense, E,Kane, Bogosian, Hodgson, Meyers, RoR, Phanuef off the top of my head

are examples of big deals for young guys (21 year olds) that didn't elevate the team or work out


Big contracts that worked.. Tavares, Kane Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin ... much smaller list.

[adc]

So the Oilers deals, the ROR deal that the Avs didn't want to sign but were forced to because of a terrible offer and some debatable deals. How many of those deals made the teams worse because of jealously or bad feelings?

[jayswin]

wrong thread

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Not going to do the work but: Hall, Eberle, RHN, Landeskog, Duchense, E,Kane, Bogosian, Hodgson, Meyers, RoR, Phanuef off the top of my head

are examples of big deals for young guys (21 year olds) that didn't elevate the team or work out


Big contracts that worked.. Tavares, Kane Toews, Crosby, Ovechkin ... much smaller list.

So basically your POV is that unless the player is one of the top 10 in the world - you shouldn't sign them to big contracts?
Because that's what this post basically concludes.

[jayswin]

Hey Ricardodw! What did you think of that game? Can you give credit where credit is due, or do you want to stick to the narrative?

[jg13]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Hey Ricardodw! What did you think of that game? Can you give credit where credit is due, or do you want to stick to the narrative?

Let me and the rest of CP know what he says. Or don't.