[Trade] Flames trade 15th OA, 45th OA, and 52nd OA for Dougie Hamilton

[codynw]

Originally Posted by 1_Flames_Fan

How did Hamilton put up so many points in Boston last year? Better system? Better players? More opportunities? Chara?

It sure wasn't Chara.

More opportunity and familiarity with the system are probably the biggest thing.

[flamesfever]

I think acquiring Hamilton has played a significant part in upsetting team chemistry.

When you bring in a young player and pay him more than he's worth at his stage of development, you not only overburden him, but somehow you throw things out of whack for the rest of the players and what they expect for remuneration for their contribution (Russell comes to mind).

Now over the long haul, the acquisition may prove to be beneficial. However, I believe it will delay the rebuild, in the order of a year or more.

[Poe969]

So you think picking up a big skilled young defenseman will set the rebuild back when it was exactly what this team was missing?

I don't think these guys are the kind that get upset over what other guys are making and if so, they should go (Russell comes to mind). The team just didn't seem that way last year and I don't know what would have changed....

[Phanuthier]

I think its a bad combination of 2 things :

1. everybody knows the Flames success comes from activating the D, and they are getting a lot more pressure and a lot less time then last year... so Hamilton is also seeing more pressure then in Boston

2. new team, and when there is so little time out there and you have new teammates, you don't have that instinct on what they are going to do (yet)

Laugh at the people who are now saying this was a terrible deal... look around, there is a a shortage of top 4 young D under 25, and get a (potential?) top 2 defenseman for draft picks. The dollar is probably close to market value at worst. In no realm can I see this being a bad deal.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Poe969

So you're admitting that he's a second pairing guy? If he's starting the game on the second pairing, he's at worst a #4 not a #5... I can tell reading comprehension isn't your strongest but I didn't think your math would be that bad....

The thing to focus on here is that we have Brodie as ouor #1 guy and then we have 5 #5 guys, ice time be damned.

I am admitting that Hartley is giving him every chance to step up and earn a spot in the top 4.

Not only is Hamilton 5th in TOI over the whole season he has been 5th in TOI in every single game since Brodie got back...

In his last 9 games there has not been 1 game where Hamilton has played well enough to earn more ice time than the top 4.


For crying out loud even Josh Jooris has had a couple games where he forced the coaches to play him top 6 minutes.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Poe969

So you think picking up a big skilled young defenseman will set the rebuild back when it was exactly what this team was missing?

I don't think these guys are the kind that get upset over what other guys are making and if so, they should go (Russell comes to mind). The team just didn't seem that way last year and I don't know what would have changed....

Big yes. Plays big? No. Plays very soft.

Skilled? Haven't seen much skill. Not even many flashes of skill.

Young? Yes. He is young. He has that and potential going for him.

42 points last year. He certainly doesn't look like a guy who can put up 42 points.

New team, new contract, new heightened expectations. Doesn't win battles for the puck. Doesn't tie up his man properly in front of the net. Has difficulty making a tape to tape pass. Gives the puck away much too often. Seems lost in his zone. Makes too many bad pinches and then just stays down low for some reason. Bad decision making over all.

Every Flames fan wants him to succeed. Just doesn't look good right now but I am assuming it can only get better. I believe he just needs a couple of good games in a row under his belt, confidence is everything in this league.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I am admitting that Hartley is giving him every chance to step up and earn a spot in the top 4.

Not only is Hamilton 5th in TOI over the whole season he has been 5th in TOI in every single game since Brodie got back...

In his last 9 games there has not been 1 game where Hamilton has played well enough to earn more ice time than the top 4.


For crying out loud even Josh Jooris has had a couple games where he forced the coaches to play him top 6 minutes.

So you're saying that Hamilton hasn't been good for a single game???!?!?!?!1? He hasn't been good enough to increase his ice time??!?!?!? Or are you saying that even when he's playing good that Hartley isn't playing him more because he likes the older players? So you're saying that Hartley hates young players?!?!?!?! So you're saying that Hamilton is garbage and now Josh Jooris is better than Johnny Gaudreau and Sam Bennett?!?!?!?!?! And you're saying that young players who've never coached a game are making coaching decisions?!?!?!?!?

[heep223]

?!?!?!?!?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

In his last 9 games there has not been 1 game where Hamilton has played well enough to earn more ice time than the top 4.

Then why the heck was he on the ice with Brodie for the OT winner in Washington?

And look at a game like the night before against the Lightning.....pretty tough for Hamilton to get top 4 minutes when Dennis friggin Wideman got 6:20 on the PP alone....that's 2 minutes more than anyone else on the team! Oh, and Wideman was a -2 that night.

Maybe the issue isn't Hamilton but how Hartley is running his bench this season.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by heep223

?!?!?!?!?

What are you trying to say?!?!?!?!?!?1!?!?

[Karl]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

Big yes. Plays big? No. Plays very soft.

Skilled? Haven't seen much skill. Not even many flashes of skill.

Young? Yes. He is young. He has that and potential going for him.

42 points last year. He certainly doesn't look like a guy who can put up 42 points.

New team, new contract, new heightened expectations. Doesn't win battles for the puck. Doesn't tie up his man properly in front of the net. Has difficulty making a tape to tape pass. Gives the puck away much too often. Seems lost in his zone. Makes too many bad pinches and then just stays down low for some reason. Bad decision making over all.

Every Flames fan wants him to succeed. Just doesn't look good right now but I am assuming it can only get better. I believe he just needs a couple of good games in a row under his belt, confidence is everything in this league.

To be fair, a lot of the other Flames players are also looking exactly like this. Specifically all the other defencemen, plus Johnny Hockey, Mony & especially Hudler. God have Hudler and Wideman ever been standout awful this year.

[adc]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

So Hartley the coach of the year needs advice on Hamilton apparently.

Hartley the coach of the year might not need advice but 6-12-1 Hartley with the worst goals against and goal difference in the NHL looks like he does.

[adc]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think acquiring Hamilton has played a significant part in upsetting team chemistry.

When you bring in a young player and pay him more than he's worth at his stage of development, you not only overburden him, but somehow you throw things out of whack for the rest of the players and what they expect for remuneration for their contribution (Russell comes to mind).

Now over the long haul, the acquisition may prove to be beneficial. However, I believe it will delay the rebuild, in the order of a year or more.

I don't understand this line of thinking.

Gio just got a huge deal bigger than Hamiltons so why would he care? Wideman makes the same and has a deal that most reports have as being untradable. Engelland is overpaid according to most people so he should be good with his deal. Russell is an upcoming g UFA so should be jacked that defensemen are getting big deals.

That leaves Brodie as the one guy who could be pissed and he has been very good to great this year.

I also can't see Hamilton feeling overburdened by getting the deal he asked for and was traded out of Boston because they wouldn't give it to him.

[bucksmasher]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

I think acquiring Hamilton has played a significant part in upsetting team chemistry.

When you bring in a young player and pay him more than he's worth at his stage of development, you not only overburden him, but somehow you throw things out of whack for the rest of the players and what they expect for remuneration for their contribution (Russell comes to mind).

Now over the long haul, the acquisition may prove to be beneficial. However, I believe it will delay the rebuild, in the order of a year or more.

Not. See Denis Wideman

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by adc

Hartley the coach of the year might not need advice but 6-12-1 Hartley with the worst goals against and goal difference in the NHL looks like he does.

Hey not saying his defensive coaching game is perfect but he's doing the right thing with Hamilton. Easing his ice time to fifth and giving him the most sheltered minutes. Hamilton hasn't shown he deserves anything more ice time and certainly hasn't fought for more minutes.

He's got potential but let's not pretend he's been anything short of average to awful in his short tenure with the Flames. Calling him the second best d-man so far on the year is so out of reality. He's been 4th best at the very best and IMO him and Russell are pretty close this season with Wideman obviously being the worst of the bunch.

[FiveSeven]

Hamilton is a good player. Hamilton will only get better. Hamilton will grow his game in all aspects. Sooner rather then later you will see we've been blessed in acquiring such a player.

That is all.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by Poe969

So you're saying that Hamilton hasn't been good for a single game???!?!?!?!1? He hasn't been good enough to increase his ice time??!?!?!? Or are you saying that even when he's playing good that Hartley isn't playing him more because he likes the older players? So you're saying that Hartley hates young players?!?!?!?! So you're saying that Hamilton is garbage and now Josh Jooris is better than Johnny Gaudreau and Sam Bennett?!?!?!?!?! And you're saying that young players who've never coached a game are making coaching decisions?!?!?!?!?

Please stop quoting Ricardo posts. How many times do we need to tell you... Just put him on ignore, nothing he says makes sense.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Hey not saying his defensive coaching game is perfect but he's doing the right thing with Hamilton. Easing his ice time to fifth and giving him the most sheltered minutes. Hamilton hasn't shown he deserves anything more ice time and certainly hasn't fought for more minutes.

The game I mentioned previously in this thread in Tampa Wideman had 6:20 of PP time. Hamilton had zero. Hamilton played ok that game, Wideman was pretty bad and was a -2.

I'm not going to sit here and bash Hartley, but that seems pretty wacky to me.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Laugh at the people who are now saying this was a terrible deal... look around, there is a a shortage of top 4 young D under 25, and get a (potential?) top 2 defenseman for draft picks. The dollar is probably close to market value at worst. In no realm can I see this being a bad deal.

I don't see many people saying it's now a terrible deal. I'd still make that trade today if I was Treliving but it's not as lopsided as originally thought. If he lives up to his expectations it'll be a steal of a deal, and even if he doesn't it was a good trade at the time that every GM in the league would have made so can't fault Treliving for that either. Let's hope he picks it up and solves what ever problems he's having but let's not pretend he's doing better than he is, that's so Oilers.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by adc

I don't understand this line of thinking.

Gio just got a huge deal bigger than Hamiltons so why would he care? Wideman makes the same and has a deal that most reports have as being untradable. Engelland is overpaid according to most people so he should be good with his deal. Russell is an upcoming g UFA so should be jacked that defensemen are getting big deals.

That leaves Brodie as the one guy who could be pissed and he has been very good to great this year.

I also can't see Hamilton feeling overburdened by getting the deal he asked for and was traded out of Boston because they wouldn't give it to him.

I thought that Boston actually offered him the same deal (or something real close) and he just wanted out.

Something about liking the Flames young culture and better locker room. In Boston there were a lot of players that would have more playoff games than anyone on the Flames and had been to a game 7 in the SC finals twice.