Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Ozy_Flame]

Getting calls on abortion rights now?

TBA is almost assuredly behind this crap. And the government is bending to their will.

Tick tock, Alberta. What are you going to do to prevent this from devolving into a puppet regime that spells the end of provincial democracy?

I recommend buying UCP memberships and participating in Smith's upcoming leadership review.

Parker has already publicly indicated they're going to infiltrate the NDP's leadership race, so why not do the same right back to this little chud goblin? Don't give this megalomaniac with a self-professed messiah complex an inch.

[Muta]

Oh man, TBA would absolutely hate that - us centrists and non extreme right-wingers buying memberships into the UCP and voting on their issues. If Parker wants to pay that game, we can too.

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by curves2000

We may be splitting hairs here but I don't believe this is or will be a government bill, so to speak. Some policy changes may be directives from the government and some aspects may be enshrined in law as a government bill. There are a few moving parts to this through education ministry, health, social services and more.

Am I in favor of this from Smith? As a non parent, parental rights seem logical and pragmatic to me. Some of the other stuff? Not really. Is some of this political? Absolutely but it's also political on the opposite side which is where I think some of the pushback may be coming on the right. Naturally when adults in the room can't agree, it's children that pay the price. It's sad but it's what happens in real life.

I think there is a LOT to learn from everybody on this across the board. I am the first to admit, I don't have answers, but neither do some other people. A lot of this explosion in people identifying as trans/ wanting gender reassignment surgery treatment etc is a fairly new situation for a lot of people. People in government, parents, students, medical professionals, historians are all trying to understand certain things.

You hear situations like in Sweden, a country that first allowed gender reassignment surgery in recent times, putting the brakes on certain aspects of their policy. A 1500% growth rate from 2008-2018 had people wondering what may be happening.

In the French material I referenced, they discuss an " epidemic-like phenomenon" This growth rate is something perplexing to a lot medical professionals. When a G7 medical organization writes something like that, it's an eye opener in some ways for me at least.

In the UK, the national health system was tasked with a study. 10 years ago approx 250 people were referred to the Gender Identity Services department. In 2022 that was 5000, a doubling from 2021.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ender-identity

I am sure with the help of of the NDP, some medical professionals and other experts, some aspect of this may be watered down or changed due reflect a better understanding.

You don’t genuinely think this government is going to listen to the NDP and experts and make changes to this do you?

The reality is gender based surgeries are already exceedingly rare for minors. My understanding is the standard of treatment is pretty much pre-puberty -support the individual. During puberty - hormone treatment. Post puberty into adult explore surgery. None of what they are doing is about anything medical, it is right wing religious based ideology infiltrating our policy making machinery.

This whole opt in policy makes about as much sense as allowing parents to opt their kids into studies about geography because they don’t think the earth is round. They have all this fear and anger in them about grooming and sexual predation when the very institutions they worship, the church, are historically the most likely source of this, but carry on, let’s stop kids from being properly educated about sex and sexuality. It only causes more problems with sex and sexuality when we don’t educate about it.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by curves2000

We may be splitting hairs here but I don't believe this is or will be a government bill, so to speak. Some policy changes may be directives from the government and some aspects may be enshrined in law as a government bill. There are a few moving parts to this through education ministry, health, social services and more.

Am I in favor of this from Smith? As a non parent, parental rights seem logical and pragmatic to me. Some of the other stuff? Not really. Is some of this political? Absolutely but it's also political on the opposite side which is where I think some of the pushback may be coming on the right. Naturally when adults in the room can't agree, it's children that pay the price. It's sad but it's what happens in real life.

I think there is a LOT to learn from everybody on this across the board. I am the first to admit, I don't have answers, but neither do some other people. A lot of this explosion in people identifying as trans/ wanting gender reassignment surgery treatment etc is a fairly new situation for a lot of people. People in government, parents, students, medical professionals, historians are all trying to understand certain things.

You hear situations like in Sweden, a country that first allowed gender reassignment surgery in recent times, putting the brakes on certain aspects of their policy. A 1500% growth rate from 2008-2018 had people wondering what may be happening.

In the French material I referenced, they discuss an " epidemic-like phenomenon" This growth rate is something perplexing to a lot medical professionals. When a G7 medical organization writes something like that, it's an eye opener in some ways for me at least.

In the UK, the national health system was tasked with a study. 10 years ago approx 250 people were referred to the Gender Identity Services department. In 2022 that was 5000, a doubling from 2021.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ender-identity

I am sure with the help of of the NDP, some medical professionals and other experts, some aspect of this may be watered down or changed due reflect a better understanding.

Curves, did you read the Guardian article or any of the others, or just the headlines? They make a very reasonable of why this is becoming more widely observed. If you want the simplified analogy from the Guardian article about the situation in the UK:

”Left-handedness increased over time after we stopped punishing left-handed children in schools, because some children are naturally left-handed and were now able to express it,” said Cleo Madeleine, a spokesperson for the trans support group Gendered Intelligence.

“In the same way, increased visibility and acceptance of trans people has led to a gradual increase in young people who feel comfortable expressing their trans identity. The most important thing is to recognise that this is not a problem to be solved or a bad outcome to be avoided.”

[belsarius]

Ahhh, I see this is working exactly as the UCP intended. People trying to debate parental rights as they apply to gender affirming surgery, which almost everyone will agree with, as opposed to parental rights as they apply to outing students to their parents without their consent or having to opt in to science education (yes human sexually is science).

Deflect, smokescreen and get people focused on the wrong things.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Deflect, smokescreen and get people focused on the wrong things.

Ah yes, the maskirovka special. Sow confusion and take an angry population base to the next topic so quickly so as to obfuscate the topic before it.

Right out of the Russian playbook.

[timun]

Bingo, Belisarius. Gender reassignment surgery wasn't available to kids under 18 anyway. Hormone therapy wasn't available to teenagers without going through extensive consultations with physicians anyway. Other than an explicit ban on kids younger than 16 getting hormone treatments—which was already super-rare—that policy is de facto unchanged. (Although now it'll #### up treatment for cases of precocious puberty, which I'm sure the government didn't consider and didn't give a flying #### about anyway...)

It was all just cover to pass the far, far more insidious teachers-have-to-out-queer-kids policy, and mandatory daily opt-in to sex-ed policy. All that is designed to do is keep queer kids afraid of their parents, and create so much paperwork for schools that they'll reduce the teaching of sex-ed and keep kids ignorant.

[Sliver]

Haha, UCP is awesome at duping the simple minded. I would love to write propaganda for them. Would be such a rush watching people fall for it and regurgitate it haha.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Getting calls on abortion rights now?

TBA is almost assuredly behind this crap. And the government is bending to their will.

Tick tock, Alberta. What are you going to do to prevent this from devolving into a puppet regime that spells the end of provincial democracy?

I recommend buying UCP memberships and participating in Smith's upcoming leadership review.

Parker has already publicly indicated they're going to infiltrate the NDP's leadership race, so why not do the same right back to this little chud goblin? Don't give this megalomaniac with a self-professed messiah complex an inch.

Yep I got this call last night as well.

Very cool and good that we're seeing this kind of accelerationism in Alberta.

[Fuzz]

Ya, but at least we didn't get stuck with that massive NDP tax hike and socialism.

[#-3]

It's a trap.

It should only be stated;

The left largely supports the status quo.
That regulations already largely prevent many of these issues for minors.
That normally parental and physician consent are required for treatment to minors.
That the right is engaged in social engineering trying to control the decisions in your household.
That at risk people may experience harm, self harm or abuse as a result of the government directly attacking them.


What should never be said
That someone is bigot for not understanding what most us probably do not truly understand, because speaking for myself I really truly cannot put myself in the mindset of a trans person in respect of their gender-dysphoria.
That people without a personal investment in this issue should it be a high salience issue, when it is not for them.
Or that some of the things that regulations already block (like bottom surgery for a minor) should be allowed, there really just shouldn't be a comment on stuff like that other than we accept the existing regime or prior to this legislation, depending on if it is before or after this bill gets rammed through.

This is very dangerous legislation for Canada, starting to dip our toes into the craziest aspects of American culture war, and their is a reason this wedge has become prominent, not because the right cares about it at all, but because they have seen the visceral reaction of low information voters on this issue, and know that for most content people the first reaction is "why can't they just be content?" And that when the left starts using strong language in support of things that already aren't happening people cleave onto the right side of this wedge, not the left.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Apparently theres a new phone survey out thats targetting abortion.

Im sure itll be fine.

Yeah I got it yesterday.

It seems like a no brainer that someone under 18 can get an apportion with no one else knowing.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Major issues in this province like housing, healthcare, education, but rather than try to make lives better for all albertans they're choosing to make lives worse for certain albertans.

####ing joke

Don't you know. Education, housing, and healthcare are all clearly Federal responsibilities

/s

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Pretty sure her name is still boobbus.

Marlaina Boobbus has a nice ring to it.

[CroCop]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Marlaina Boobbus has a nice ring to it.

Ol’ TIRE tits

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Ahhh, I see this is working exactly as the UCP intended. People trying to debate parental rights as they apply to gender affirming surgery, which almost everyone will agree with, as opposed to parental rights as they apply to outing students to their parents without their consent or having to opt in to science education (yes human sexually is science).

Deflect, smokescreen and get people focused on the wrong things.

The funny thing is, they probably don't even need to underplay the outing kids thing. If this poll is accurate, Canadians have very conservative opinions on this issue. 43% of respondents support a requirement (notification and consent required) that is more extreme than virtually every US state. Even Alabama just requires notification.

I think it's likely because most people haven't really thought through the realities of what a policy like that looks like in practise (i.e. it's actually the government getting more involved in peoples' lives, not less). But if we take people at their word, basically 80% of the population thinks that teachers should be required to out students to their parents even in cases where the student expressly doesn't want them to.

[Jimmy Stang]

I'm sure that some very small modifications will be made to give the allusion of being reasonable. It is part of the playbook.

- Propose something terrible to appease the TBA types
- Walk back about 0.01% of the terribleness because "listening to Albertans"
- Continue to pass a still-terrible piece of regressive legislation
- Boast about how they listened to Albertans

This is a stark reminder that our rights are fluid and should not be taken for granted. Abortions will be next, and it won't be in a sweeping, cataclysmic measure. It will be done bit by bit, in a manner similar to this. There will be a "protect the young pregnant girls!" appeal about youth abortions, which are extremely rare and uncommon, and very much already supervised, regulated, etc. Then a bunch of other little things will be slipped in too that will put restrictions on accessibly, funding, etc. that will make it more difficult for women and their physicians to consider the option.

This was basically "don't let kids change their names in class!!", but they have changed the focus to "don't let kids have life-altering surgeries" (which is rare and extreme) and look at all of the other regressive stuff that we've got along with it.

Take an extreme example that doesn't really happen, get everyone distracted by it, and then chip away at a bunch of other things in the process.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Getting calls on abortion rights now?

TBA is almost assuredly behind this crap. And the government is bending to their will.

Tick tock, Alberta. What are you going to do to prevent this from devolving into a puppet regime that spells the end of provincial democracy?

I recommend buying UCP memberships and participating in Smith's upcoming leadership review.

Parker has already publicly indicated they're going to infiltrate the NDP's leadership race, so why not do the same right back to this little chud goblin? Don't give this megalomaniac with a self-professed messiah complex an inch.

It's a $60k buy-in so, at least, it'll cost them. I haven't talked to insiders yet about all the rules for the leadership contest but I'm betting they'll have made it difficult for TBA to do any real damage in the contest.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by D as in David

It's a $60k buy-in so, at least, it'll cost them. I haven't talked to insiders yet about all the rules for the leadership contest but I'm betting they'll have made it difficult for TBA to do any real damage in the contest.

I don't think he ever said they were going to run a candidate but rather they were going to buy up a huge amount of memberships which would allow them to sway the vote to a specific candidate.

[pepper24]

New York Times: As Kids, They Thought They Were Trans. They No Longer Do.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/02/o...dysphoria.html