Brad Treliving needs to go

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I guess the difference between you and me is that I consider these pretty valid excuses. If the vision is longer term, then I personally don't think the TDL is the time to make significant changes that are needed. We will see what happens in the off-season, but my expectations are tempered by how flat the NHL trade market has been for the past year.

All I’m saying is I wish my job paid me gobs of money to peddle excuses for why I haven’t gotten any work done in 3 years while the results continue to get worse.

[Psytic]

I dont know that hes any worse than any previous Flames GMs but hes strictly average. They need a better than average GM to get anywhere with the fact this is not a hot destination. Someone like Chevy or Lou that can take a crap situation and turn it into gold . Not sure who is available thats like that. Im sure they thought the Phoenix Coyotes Mgmt team they have could do more with less as well but it hasn't worked out. They channeled thier 2012 Coyotes season with their Peter's season and that was proven a fluke just like the Yotes. Maybe Lombardi would get slightly better results but im not certain as he had a pretty hot market to work with.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

For me it’s all about how he executes here at the trade deadline.

No excuses, maximize returns and begin the new era.

Retain on Gio and Johnny, get good returns.

Absolutely no excuses anymore. “Oh times are tough - hard to do a deal in-season”...we heard that last season, yet other teams made moves. Treliving has been an inadequate manager in-season for multiple years at this stage. He needs to execute and show that he’s a GM worth keeping around. It’s a competition between him and the other 31 GMs in the league (Seattle included). Start executing like a top-16 GM, and perhaps the team’s results will start reflecting that.

Prepare to be disappointed. It looks like it will be a buyer's market this year.

If the player has any term left, I would wait until the draft.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

All I’m saying is I wish my job paid me gobs of money to peddle excuses for why I haven’t gotten any work done in 3 years while the results continue to get worse.

Don't we all wish that we were NHL GMs.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

It's indicative of a horribly flawed/rushed philosophy with the rebuild.

Anything like this is a butterfly effect that's impossible to predict. Kinda like trading a 35OA pick early in a rebuild for a single year Elliott goaltending. Do we pick Kyrou or Debrincat who fill that elusive RW? Probably not, but maybe we use some of those assets in trades instead of chasing shortcuts.

Any rebuild predicated on an 18yo becoming a 22 yo superstar is failure.

I think it's clear to all that Bennett's ceiling is simply not what we hoped. But I think it's fair to wonder how much his development was pooched by the rushed rebuild and a team trying to run before it could walk.

Leon got sent back down. Couturier took yeeeeeears to blossom. Olli Jokinen's first four years were way worse than Bennett's. Ryan Strome showed promise in his 21yo season but it took 5 more years before he exceeded 35 points. Playing C in the NHL is hard...lots of high picks take a long time to figure it out...most don't get asked to be swiss-army-knives to patch holes on flawed rosters.

Expectations were simply out of whack for the reality of 4OA picks, which are closer to a coin flip than a sure thing.

Sam Bennett has had plenty of time to figure it out. He’s a very confusing player because you see what he can do in the playoffs against NHLers and you think he’s going to be an impact player. But in the mundane regular season, you can’t play balls to the wall, hit everything that moves hockey for 82 games, so Bennett’s impact fades. He still tries hard like a dog on a bone, but the game is called differently so he ends up taking a pile of bad offensive zone penalties which probably doesn’t help his confidence. So ok, he can’t be playoff Sam Bennett in the regular season.

But can he still carve out a solid career from his regular season performances? aaaand therein lies the problem. The answer is a resounding no. His raw tools are good, but nothing spectacular. The toolbox though, the hockey IQ is what flunks Sam Bennett’s game. He works hard, but doesn’t work smart. He can be strong along the boards, can cycle well and can make hard cuts because of his good edgework, but he’d rather try to deke one on one and lose the puck. He takes an incredibly long time to make decisions with the puck too, so the play passes by him and he doesn’t end up using his teammates often enough. On the defensive side, he puck watches a lot, loses his man a lot, spends a lot of time in the box, a career -70. That’s not very helpful to his team’s wins/losses department.

That’s the enigma of Sam Bennett and it has bewildered 5 different coaches so far in his career. Nobody knows what to do with him in the regular season. No linemates seem to stick so he ends up playing lower in the depth chart. Leon Draisaitl on the other hand has always had the hockey IQ and the raw skills to be a premier talent in this league. The only thing that prevented him from reaching his potential was his skating ability and to his credit, he turned that particular weakness into a strength. Now he’s actually one of the few players on his team that can not only keep up with the blazing fast Connor McDavid, but he can think the game at his level too. He can also carry his own line now which have made the Oilers a major threat in our division.

[Flame On]

He's had mixed success with things to the extent I could go either way. But I feel he's kind of screwed no matter what. If he does nothing about this lackluster team, I want him gone yesterday. But making big shifts (if he even can) would be an admission of his work not getting it done, in which case he's also screwed.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flame On

He's had mixed success with things to the extent I could go either way. But I feel he's kind of screwed no matter what. If he does nothing about this lackluster team, I want him gone yesterday. But making big shifts (if he even can) would be an admission of his work not getting it done, in which case he's also screwed.

Why would Treliving be "screwed" in this case?

[chedder]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

You have a lot more faith in this organization than I do. I think we’re primed for another offseason and TDL full of excuses. Prices didn’t make sense, hard to make trades with flat cap, we were close on lots of guys, Sutter needs a full offseason to work with the team, etc.

This is exactly where I am. And if he doesn't trade or extend Johnny this summer we'll know he has no clue.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Very early in the poll, but looks like a lot here believe he'll be back either way. I think he will be too. The question isn't if he'll make moves, it's who and how many. I think this thing will be blown up, and I think even if he doesn't hit home runs with trades in the offseason there's going to be a lot of addition by subtraction.

The poll is pretty split with about half think he should be gone and half think he should come back. But yes the majority believe ownership brings him back.

I voted should be fired, but won't. But I would not be shocked if he is let go. What Darryl tells ownership about the roster is going to carry alot of weight and that is a new wrinkle to the organizational dynamics.

[Flamenspiel]

I am in favour of replacing him if there is a better GM available. Maybe Hunter or Lombardi. Also, would it be possible to hire away all of Winnipeg's scouts?

Certainly would not want Chiapet or one of those Buffalo castoffs.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why would Treliving be "screwed" in this case?

I don't know I guess I feel if he goes to ownership and says "hey so you know this team and core which I said was almost there and we have to stick with, well we have to now do a pretty severe re-tool at the least" not sure they're going to like that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flame On

I don't know I guess I feel if he goes to ownership and says "hey so you know this team and core which I said was almost there and we have to stick with, well we have to now do a pretty severe re-tool at the least" not sure they're going to like that.

They aren't going to like it but that's what I would expect and want to hear from a senior executive.
Business decisions are made on assumptions. When those assumptions are wrong you need to identify it and pivot, while at the same time understanding why the assumption was wrong.
Not having that conversation and surfacing that is why I would fire someone .

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flame On

I don't know I guess I feel if he goes to ownership and says "hey so you know this team and core which I said was almost there and we have to stick with, well we have to now do a pretty severe re-tool at the least" not sure they're going to like that.

Or:

“So those core players that I’ve expressed doubts about since the Avs series? Who I explored deals for in the summer, and found almost no takers and really bad deals because the NHL trade market has been essentially frozen for 12 months? Looks like I’m going to have to deal them for even less of a return this offseason because even your old friend Darryl hasn’t found a way to get through to them like you hoped.

“And since straight hockey deals are vanishingly rare these days, it’s doubtful we’ll get two core players in return, so the team will likely take another step back next season. Are you okay with rebuilding while you’re trying to sell seasons tickets for the new building? Or do you want me to stick with the original plan and do whatever it takes to make the playoffs for the next couple of seasons?”

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

They aren't going to like it but that's what I would expect and want to hear from a senior executive.
Business decisions are made on assumptions. When those assumptions are wrong you need to identify it and pivot, while at the same time understanding why the assumption was wrong.
Not having that conversation and surfacing that is why I would fire someone .

Sure but the evaluation of the team, its talent and potential is not an assumption. That is your GM's job.

If the owners feel he got it totally wrong, you'd have to have some reason to believe he will get it right going forward.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Or:

“So those core players that I’ve expressed doubts about since the Avs series? Who I explored deals for in the summer, and found almost no takers and really bad deals because the NHL trade market has been essentially frozen for 12 months? Looks like I’m going to have to deal them for even less of a return this offseason because even your old friend Darryl hasn’t found a way to get through to them like you hoped.

“And since straight hockey deals are vanishingly rare these days, it’s doubtful we’ll get two core players in return, so the team will likely take another step back next season. Are you okay with rebuilding while you’re trying to sell seasons tickets for the new building? Or do you want me to stick with the original plan and do whatever it takes to make the playoffs for the next couple of seasons?”

If the bolded is accurate, that would look more favorably upon Treliving.

Now we sure haven't heard much about core players being shopped. Brodie and Jankowski were the only ones I remember hearing. Hanifin I guess. And draft picks.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Prepare to be disappointed. It looks like it will be a buyer's market this year.

If the player has any term left, I would wait until the draft.

It's on him to execute.

He hasn't been a good enough GM - if he wants to prove himself as adequate, then he needs to perform in such a manner.

Right now, he is inadequate. The organization has a poor prospect base, and the roster he constructed is a bottom 1/3 team in the league with no reason to believe/project that they will improve next season. He can either execute at this upcoming trade deadline, or he can leave as far as I'm concerned. Making smart moves at the deadline to help secure a "better tomorrow" is his last shot in my eyes (unlikely the organization holds the same view).

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If the bolded is accurate, that would look more favorably upon Treliving.

Now we sure haven't heard much about core players being shopped. Brodie and Jankowski were the only ones I remember hearing. Hanifin I guess. And draft picks.

Pinder references it pretty frequently these days, but he says the Flames have been looking to move Monahan since the 2020 deadline.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Pinder references it pretty frequently these days, but he says the Flames have been looking to move Monahan since the 2020 deadline.

Thanks, I really hadn't heard that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If the bolded is accurate, that would look more favorably upon Treliving.

Now we sure haven't heard much about core players being shopped. Brodie and Jankowski were the only ones I remember hearing. Hanifin I guess. And draft picks.

There was talk of Monahan being shopped in a deal involving Josh Anderson.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Sure but the evaluation of the team, its talent and potential is not an assumption. That is your GM's job.

If the owners feel he got it totally wrong, you'd have to have some reason to believe he will get it right going forward.

I’d bet his internal evaluations of players are a hell of a lot more realistic than anything he’d put into the public.