Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Registered Dietician. That is the legally protected term in Canada.

Registered Dietician is to Nutritionist as Dentist is to Toothiologist.

He was trying to send me down a witch doctor pathway.
/g

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Ok, give me some slack here because this is a very uneducated take, with no research done.

If Alberta simply throws more money at a problem and it doesn’t solve the problem, what have we accomplished? Basically just taken resources from other provinces and made their situations worse?

Who is suggesting "throwing money at the problem"? One thing that has been an issue for decades is that we don't have enough long term capacity, so sick elderly get stuck taking up expensive hospital beds. Yet we can't even do that. Would building more elder care spaces be "throwing money at the problem" or coming up with a solution to a problem that costs money but saves money in the end make sense?


There are no shortage of reports and studies suggesting fixes for problems. It's time we actually do them, and not use cost as an excuse not to. Because this government has shown it's happy to waste money as long as it's a cause they are pushing for, even if no intelligent Albertan wants it.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Who is suggesting "throwing money at the problem"? One thing that has been an issue for decades is that we don't have enough long term capacity, so sick elderly get stuck taking up expensive hospital beds. Yet we can't even do that. Would building more elder care spaces be "throwing money at the problem" or coming up with a solution to a problem that costs money but saves money in the end make sense?


There are no shortage of reports and studies suggesting fixes for problems. It's time we actually do them, and not use cost as an excuse not to. Because this government has shown it's happy to waste money as long as it's a cause they are pushing for, even if no intelligent Albertan wants it.

Long term care beds are such low-hanging fruit, too... Especially with the demographic trends over the next 10-20 years.

[Fuzz]

We should probably sit around and wait until it's a massive crisis though, so we can then see what "throwing money at a problem" really looks like. It'll make Turkynol look like a penny fountain.

[Ozy_Flame]

I can't imagine how far that $1.3B would have done for healthcare instead of being thrown towards a losing bet on Keystone from the Kenney government. The cost of an average hospital stay in Alberta is $9220 in 2021-2022, the highest of all the provinces. A higher cost means that a hospital or region spent relatively more per patient stay. And the type of hospital being stayed at can impact the cost as well.

If, for example, that money went to build new facilities like the South Edmonton Hospital (a hospital that should have been built by now based on demand), that would have helped improve access, wait times, and hospital costs in the Edmonton region by adding 491 beds. And even that won't be enough for growing demand. $1.3B could have been put towards another new hospital with similar capacity, or to beef up existing facilities with more beds.

Alberta needs more ICU and non-ICU beds and facilities, and the resources to staff them. It's not difficult.

The extremely myopic view of healthcare by consecutive conservative governments is showing its warts. They want to redesign parts of the car at a time when your bigger concern to solve immediate issues is by putting up the back row of seats.

[CliffFletcher]

Alberta has the means to increase funding and resources for health care - raising taxes to the level Canadians in other provinces pay. The problem is any party that does that will get voted out of office. There’s a reason even the NDP promises they won’t bring in a PST.

As Jim Prentice said, Albertans need to look in the mirror.

[Muta]

I will say I had an absolutely 5-star experience at the Peter Lougheed Centre back in September. I had a septoplasty done, and the admin staff, nurses and doctors there were A+ human beings in terms of attitude and service the moment I arrived in the early morning until I was discharged in the evening. The U of C even came in and worked with me (through the doctor's personal recommendation) to test run some new medical scanning devices while I waited in the unit, it was super interesting. After my surgery and recovery, I made sure to thank all everyone in the unit and all nurses and let them know how awesome they are, how important they are to Calgary, and how much my family and friends support them.

Of course, this experience isn't attributed to the UCP in the slightest, and I'd never give them credit for any of it either - I had to wait almost two years for this surgery. The real people working at the PLC made it awesome.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Ok, give me some slack here because this is a very uneducated take, with no research done.

If Alberta simply throws more money at a problem and it doesn’t solve the problem, what have we accomplished? Basically just taken resources from other provinces and made their situations worse?

I guess it depends on where you throw it?

Throwing 80 million at undesirable knock off Tylenol = Bad

What have they attempted since being in office to solve any of the issues?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I can't imagine how far that $1.3B would have done for healthcare instead of being thrown towards a losing bet on Keystone from the Kenney government. The cost of an average hospital stay in Alberta is $9220 in 2021-2022, the highest of all the provinces. A higher cost means that a hospital or region spent relatively more per patient stay. And the type of hospital being stayed at can impact the cost as well.

If, for example, that money went to build new facilities like the South Edmonton Hospital (a hospital that should have been built by now based on demand), that would have helped improve access, wait times, and hospital costs in the Edmonton region by adding 491 beds. And even that won't be enough for growing demand. $1.3B could have been put towards another new hospital with similar capacity, or to beef up existing facilities with more beds.

Alberta needs more ICU and non-ICU beds and facilities, and the resources to staff them. It's not difficult.

The extremely myopic view of healthcare by consecutive conservative governments is showing its warts. They want to redesign parts of the car at a time when your bigger concern to solve immediate issues is by putting up the back row of seats.

Alberta just gave $1.8B to Dow for their net zero chem plant. Beyond construction and operating jobs, I guess that's intended to help establish the province as a home for that type of net zero industry. It's hard to put a price tag on that but $1.8 is a huge amount of money that could (also) do good elsewhere. Are these priorities correct?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Who is suggesting "throwing money at the problem"? One thing that has been an issue for decades is that we don't have enough long term capacity, so sick elderly get stuck taking up expensive hospital beds. Yet we can't even do that. Would building more elder care spaces be "throwing money at the problem" or coming up with a solution to a problem that costs money but saves money in the end make sense?


There are no shortage of reports and studies suggesting fixes for problems. It's time we actually do them, and not use cost as an excuse not to. Because this government has shown it's happy to waste money as long as it's a cause they are pushing for, even if no intelligent Albertan wants it.

What I meant by throwing money at it was to simply spend more than other provinces. Very poor choice of words by me.

Wondering if there is a province or jurisdiction that is performing better than we are while spending the same.

I am certainly not against spending for health care. I am not against spending more than other provinces either. If Alberta spends more than other provinces and improves thing here, it would be nice if we were not drawing those resources from other provinces and putting them in a worse spot than they currently are.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Alberta just gave $1.8B to Dow for their net zero chem plant. Beyond construction and operating jobs, I guess that's intended to help establish the province as a home for that type of net zero industry. It's hard to put a price tag on that but $1.8 is a huge amount of money that could (also) do good elsewhere. Are these priorities correct?

Yeah I think that's a good investment. However, gambling $1.3B on a losing bet when the more surefire way to help Albertans would be to build another hospital was one of the most ridiculous wastes of taxpayer money in Alberta history. $1.3B could have gone to so, so so many other things.

I'm not slogging money devoted to sound infrastructure building. I'm slamming money wasted on pet projects that go nowhere.

[Fuzz]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1733885840856953085


Sorry if you find your healthcare ####, we need to be debt free. Gee, here's the creative Conservative money management we've benefited so much from before.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

What I meant by throwing money at it was to simply spend more than other provinces. Very poor choice of words by me.

Wondering if there is a province or jurisdiction that is performing better than we are while spending the same.

I am certainly not against spending for health care. I am not against spending more than other provinces either. If Alberta spends more than other provinces and improves thing here, it would be nice if we were not drawing those resources from other provinces and putting them in a worse spot than they currently are.

Be honest here, do you actually care? Or is it just an excuse to justify not doing anything? Because it might be the first time in the history of the Universe a Conservative cared more about someone else than themselves.

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Yeah I think that's a good investment. However, gambling $1.3B on a losing bet when the more surefire way to help Albertans would be to build another hospital was one of the most ridiculous wastes of taxpayer money in Alberta history. $1.3B could have gone to so, so so many other things.

I'm not slogging money devoted to sound infrastructure building. I'm slamming money wasted on pet projects that go nowhere.

Why is KXL, which is by definition a long linear piece of infrastructure considered a "pet project", and not sound infrastructure building?

Sometimes bets lose. Biden won by like 50,000 votes.

No private company will ever build infrastructure without government funding in today's political and regulatory climate. So be ready to see lots of "pet projects" go through.

[Ozy_Flame]

She just wants that photo-op etched into Alberta history holding a "DEBT FREE" sign like Ralph did.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Regorium

Why is KXL, which is by definition a long linear piece of infrastructure considered a "pet project", and not sound infrastructure building?

Sometimes bets lose. Biden won by like 50,000 votes.

No private company will ever build infrastructure without government funding in today's political and regulatory climate. So be ready to see lots of "pet projects" go through.

Well if KXL is a pet project, so is TMX. And what are we into for that now...$40bn from the original $7bn?

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Be honest here, do you actually care? Or is it just an excuse to justify not doing anything? Because it might be the first time in the history of the Universe a Conservative cared more about someone else than themselves.

I care.

Same reason why I have not been a supporter of APP. Surly you, as someone who doesn’t want to harm the rest of Canada by implementing the APP can see why directly hurting the rest of the country isn’t necessary a benefit.

Just to be clear, I do not know if Alberta spending more to draw more resources to AHS would hurt other provinces or not.

[aaronck]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://twitter.com/user/status/1733885840856953085


Sorry if you find your healthcare ####, we need to be debt free. Gee, here's the creative Conservative money management we've benefited so much from before.

The government is laser focused on other important things, like not limiting the gifts they can receive from donors, and pushing that rule through after little debate late in the evening...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...ills-1.7052603

[Muta]

Provincial health-care system in danger of collapse: Alberta doctors

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/provinci...source=twitter

With hospitals operating well over capacity and the number of influenza and intensive-care ward admissions on the rise, the head of the province's advocate and voice for doctors says without immediate investments to the struggling health-care system, there will be nothing left for the government to salvage after its planned overhaul of it.

Alberta Medical Association President Dr. Paul Parks said Monday that health care in the province needs "solutions right now" and that his organization has been actively advocating with government for upfront investments "to stabilize what we have right now so that we can keep the system flow so that we can then discuss restructuring and discuss how we improve it for the long run."

"To be blunt, if we don't stabilize and salvage it right now, there'll be nothing to restructure — that's how difficult things are right now," Parks told CTV News Edmonton.

But hey, lifting $ limits on gifts to UCP party members is a higher priority right now.

Worst government in the history of this province, and contending for all of Canada.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Be honest here, do you actually care? Or is it just an excuse to justify not doing anything? Because it might be the first time in the history of the Universe a Conservative cared more about someone else than themselves.

Would you support more spending on Alberta health care if you thought it would hurt other provinces?