2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Thanks..what part of their circumstance disproves that he kept them stuck in the middle? They had injuries to Markov and Gionta that year and a lack of scoring from a veteran heavy team. They were bottom 10 in scoring like our Flames. They went right back to the middle the year after. If he wasn’t there they would have drafted higher. He kept Montreal somewhat relevant and stuck in the middle. If the Flames sustain an Injury to Weeger and Coronato or somebody ages out they might end up drafting high one year to. That doesn’t mean it’s a plan. They really need to move a few more vets if they are keeping Wolf to facilitate things. Statistically as I mentioned keeping your vets, drafting middle round picks and trying to inch the team forward with middle six acquisitions doesn’t work and the examples were pretty on point that it never works. It only works if you get the elite C and D first or you are willing to move enough vets to tank with Wolf. Hoping for an injury or a one off season to get a high pick is a concept of a plan.

Moving a few more vets isn’t a plan either. They moved the vast majority of them and were still in the cusp of the playoffs. They actually improved. They could move Kadri, Coleman, and Andersson and still improve. Maybe it’s a “concept of a plan”?

Saying “it only works if you get the elite C first” just isn’t represented by the stats. You’re reading that because that’s what you want it to say. It would have worked for Montreal if Galchenyuk turned out.

It worked for Pittsburgh. Worked for Chicago too.

Pretty sure they were two of the most dominant teams for a stretch of years there. It also worked for Anaheim. And St.Louis.

The list of Stanley Cup winning elite centers that were drafted or acquired before their goaltender is actually pretty small.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by traptor

Ive said it before but a deal around Pettersson for Rossi makes alot of sense to me for both sides.

In the same Lebrun article that mentions the Flames/Canucks interest he says by all accounts the Canucks are keeping Pettersson and are very happy with how he has approached the summer.

[DJones]

God damn the burn it all down group has been out in force lately.

One of these days they'll realize they've already done all the tear down part. Guessing they'll be overjoyed people when Rasmus gets traded followed by outrage when they sign a top 4 Defense.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by DJones

God damn the burn it all down group has been out in force lately.

One of these days they'll realize they've already done all the tear down part. Guessing they'll be overjoyed people when Rasmus gets traded followed by outrage when they sign a top 4 Defense.

Not sure what you're worried about, team Forever9th will likely continue to get their wish. Don't be greedy.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Moving a few more vets isn’t a plan either. They moved the vast majority of them and were still in the cusp of the playoffs. They actually improved. They could move Kadri, Coleman, and Andersson and still improve. Maybe it’s a “concept of a plan”?

Saying “it only works if you get the elite C first” just isn’t represented by the stats. You’re reading that because that’s what you want it to say. It would have worked for Montreal if Galchenyuk turned out.

It worked for Pittsburgh. Worked for Chicago too.

Pretty sure they were two of the most dominant teams for a stretch of years there. It also worked for Anaheim. And St.Louis.

The list of Stanley Cup winning elite centers that were drafted or acquired before their goaltender is actually pretty small.

To confirm, the plan is in-fact to hope for an injury to our number one D man and RW ie Gionta and Markov so that we can sink enough one season to get a top 3 pick. Got it. That will also prove the rule for the other 5 examples as well in the last 15 years.

Chicago never had an elite goalie. Pittsburgh bottomed out and didn't lose a beat with Matt Murray.. neither of these are comparable to a Flames team not bottoming out and trying to inch their way into a wild card spot without even a single elite fwd on the roster.

You may want to go back to page 837 for the full writeups on comparables. I'm getting the sense you are just looking at the the second post I made considering you think I moved the goal posts. You will see I've maintained the same position all the way through. The reason I'm using these specific comparable teams is because they are the only ones in a similar situation of not bottoming out having an elite goalie before the elite C and D and attempting the same direction as this current ownership of just trying to make the playoffs.

Pens, Chicago, Tampa are irrelevant because they either bottomed out or floundered enough to still pick in the bottom consistently or in LAs case the goalie came after they already had Kopitar etc.. its not the same situation. There's only 5 or 6 other teams in 15 years in the same pattern and none of them became contenders.

We should move Coleman, Andersson and probably one more. Not because they arent great humans and love to be here and play with their heart and soul blah blah, but because it doesn't work. You can still hang on to some of them Like LA - Kopitar, Doughty and Kempe with Byfield, etc. but you cant keep so many that you cant get a few of those high picks. Still not really comparable though because those vets are going in the HOF. I don't see Weeger , Kadri and Huberdeau on the same level.

Didnt work for Anaheim the John Gibson years they have been awful? They had elite players on the back 9 early in his career before he came on the scene its not a comparable anyway.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Ken holland is the Gm now. It’s Clarke plus a 1st.

If Conny could get Brandt and a first he should have a statue of him made outside the new stadium.

Imagine it would start with the 2025 first. I don’t like the Kings prospect base compared to others.

At C they have Turcotte, Pinelli Helenius and Jack Hughes. Turcotte is probably nhl ready but can’t crack the roster. Not ideal nhl size either. Pinelli has good junior pedigree and a little bigger but don’t know what his upside is. Helenius seems to project as a shutdown center. Hughes is tiny (listed anywhere from 5’11-6’ and 165-170 lbs.

D (apart from Clarke) has a mammoth Czech D, Jakub Dvorak. Shutdown d in the making. Might be a good add in any package.

Does anyone have good insight into what LA might be able to offer (reasonably) in an Andersson/Popisil package (or Andersson straight up).

[dammage79]

Byfield. That's the only thing I'd want from L.A

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by flambers

Why would Vegas, regress?

Forward core and defense core are all under contract,

Where is the regress coming from?

Stone and Pietrangelo both rumoured to be out long-term, so Vegas might see a drop-off next season. But they’re likely still a playoff team.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

If Conny could get Brandt and a first he should have a statue of him made outside the new stadium.

Imagine it would start with the 2025 first. I don’t like the Kings prospect base compared to others.

At C they have Turcotte, Pinelli Helenius and Jack Hughes. Turcotte is probably nhl ready but can’t crack the roster. Not ideal nhl size either. Pinelli has good junior pedigree and a little bigger but don’t know what his upside is. Helenius seems to project as a shutdown center. Hughes is tiny (listed anywhere from 5’11-6’ and 165-170 lbs.

D (apart from Clarke) has a mammoth Czech D, Jakub Dvorak. Shutdown d in the making. Might be a good add in any package.


Does anyone have good insight into what LA might be able to offer (reasonably) in an Andersson/Popisil package (or Andersson straight up).

They have Greentree as well as their 2025 1st.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Byfield. That's the only thing I'd want from L.A

Can he clear a puck by a cross eyed dman now?

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Can he clear a puck by a cross eyed dman now?

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

They have Greentree as well as their 2025 1st.

But greenfield is a winger, which is what we are surplus of. Probably one of their best prospects and has the requisite size. But doesn’t address our C position.

D and C are positions that should garner the best trade value. So would hope we could get a C back from our best trade asset.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The Flames were the more entertaining option for over a decade in very recent history.

Why aren’t they Alberta’s team? Because fandom is passed down, you’re more likely to be a fan of a team your parents were fans of. And while the Flames were at their cup-winning best, the Oilers were a dynasty with the most popular hockey player to ever play the game.

The Leafs havent made the Stanley Cup finals for nearly 50 years and are still and have always been more popular than the Oilers and every other Canadian team that has in that time frame. Wonder why?

History is fixed, popularity isn’t. Put a Cup contending Flames team on TV every May, give us an elite star, and watch the merch tables, TikTok follows and out-of-market jerseys tell a different story. It happened in Kansas City with the Chiefs, Golden State Warriors, there are other examples.

The history factor is undeniable, but nothing will turn the tide of future generations of fans like winning.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Psytic

To confirm, the plan is in-fact to hope for an injury to our number one D man and RW ie Gionta and Markov so that we can sink enough one season to get a top 3 pick. Got it.

No. Who said anything like that? Who are you confirming this with? lol

Originally Posted by Psytic

Chicago never had an elite goalie. Pittsburgh bottomed out and didn't lose a beat with Matt Murray.. neither of these are comparable to a Flames team not bottoming out and trying to inch their way into a wild card spot without even a single elite fwd on the roster.

Crawford was better than Backstrom but you included him. MAF was drafted before Crosby, Malkin, and Letang.

I’d say they’re pretty comparable. The Flames players were just worse at being bad.

Originally Posted by Psytic

There's only 5 or 6 other teams in 15 years in the same pattern and none of them became contenders.

It’s not a pattern. As pointed out like half a dozen times, there are way too many factors at play for you to make the conclusion you’re making.

Originally Posted by Psytic

We should move Coleman, Andersson and probably one more. Not because they arent great humans and love to be here and play with their heart and soul blah blah, but because it doesn't work. You can still hang on to some of them Like LA - Kopitar, Doughty and Kempe with Byfield, etc. but you cant keep so many that you cant get a few of those high picks. Still not really comparable though because those vets are going in the HOF. I don't see Weeger , Kadri and Huberdeau on the same level.

So just to be clear:

LA who drafted Byfield with Kopitar, Quick, Doughty, Toffoli, Carter, Brown, Kovalchuk on the roster (7 vets, 2-3 HOF)= good and an example of how you can hang on to a few vets

CGY with Andersson, Coleman, Kadri, Huberdeau, Backlund, and Weegar in the roster (6 vets, 0 HOF)= bad! too many vets! they’ll stop us from drafting a Byfield!

lol k

Originally Posted by Psytic

Didnt work for Anaheim the John Gibson years they have been awful? They had elite players on the back 9 early in his career before he came on the scene its not a comparable anyway.

JSG bud. Acquired before Getzlaf. Think they won a cup, no?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

History is fixed, popularity isn’t. Put a Cup contending Flames team on TV every May, give us an elite star, and watch the merch tables, TikTok follows and out-of-market jerseys tell a different story. It happened in Kansas City with the Chiefs, Golden State Warriors, there are other examples.

The history factor is undeniable, but nothing will turn the tide of future generations of fans like winning.

A different story compared to where the Flames are now, maybe,

Not compared to the Oilers or the Leafs.

I mean, you bring up KC and Golden State, but if you had to name the most popular teams in those league, you’re not naming either of them despite the high profile stars and mountains of success.

Hell, go back and answer my first question: the Oilers have the biggest hockey star in the world and have been in back to back finals while the Leafs can’t get out of the second round. So why are the Leafs still more popular?

[Monahammer]

Just relax a bit Pepsi. Why you heff to be so mad’

Oh wait, forgot you remain above us plebs on all this and not postin with emotion (lolfkinl)

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Moving a few more vets isn’t a plan either. They moved the vast majority of them and were still in the cusp of the playoffs. They actually improved. They could move Kadri, Coleman, and Andersson and still improve. Maybe it’s a “concept of a plan”?

Saying “it only works if you get the elite C first” just isn’t represented by the stats. You’re reading that because that’s what you want it to say. It would have worked for Montreal if Galchenyuk turned out.

It worked for Pittsburgh. Worked for Chicago too.

Pretty sure they were two of the most dominant teams for a stretch of years there. It also worked for Anaheim. And St.Louis.

The list of Stanley Cup winning elite centers that were drafted or acquired before their goaltender is actually pretty small.

We’re all waiting for you to post the counter point here and actually prove what you’re trying to say. Show us the team that built the cup winning centre around the goalie and whatever else.

There’s not a magic recipe here.we waiting sensei

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

We’re all waiting for you to post the counter point here and actually prove what you’re trying to say. Show us the team that built the cup winning centre around the goalie and whatever else.

There’s not a magic recipe here.we waiting sensei

IMO, if the Flames can ship their vets and improve, then it's an argument for shipping the vets! Since the Flames have done that in the past with success, and got good assets while doing that then it's even more of an argument for shipping the vets. They even improved the culture by shipping the vets, and had the kids play a hard brand of hockey as a team.

The issue that the Flames still had last year was that they got most of their production from the vets, while giving them the most ice time. The Flames need to transition more and more of their ice time, cap, and production to the prime and prospect groups. Otherwise, it's just going to be a slow decline as the vets inevitably age.

So what are the Flames actually risking by trading the vets, and liquidating those assets? We either get a top pick at the draft or the current kids take a step in a bigger role.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Psytic

Here is what our AI overlord Chat GPT thinks about building around an elite goalie.

1. Florida Panthers (Late 1990s – Early 2010s with Roberto Luongo)
Elite Goalie: Roberto Luongo (acquired from NYI in 2000)
Missed Opportunity: Drafted poorly in the early 2000s (e.g., Nathan Horton, Rostislav Olesz, Keaton Ellerby)
Result: Despite Luongo's brilliance, Florida failed to build a strong core around him. They missed the playoffs in most seasons and only made it once (2000) during his tenure.
Why: Front-office instability, lack of forward depth, poor defensive core.

2. Minnesota Wild (2000s–2010s with Niklas Bäckström)
Elite Goalie: Niklas Bäckström (undrafted, signed in 2006)
Missed Opportunity: Focused on defensive systems and failed to draft or develop elite forwards consistently. (e.g., James Sheppard over Anze Kopitar)
Result: Made playoffs occasionally but never a real contender.
Why: Weak center depth for years.

3. Vancouver Canucks (Early 2000s with Dan Cloutier & then Luongo again in late 2000s)
Elite Goalie: Roberto Luongo (again)
Missed Opportunity: Though eventually successful (2011 Cup Final), early years saw high reliance on Luongo with slow growth of core players.
Debatable: They did eventually contend, but Luongo’s peak overlapped with rebuilding years.
Why: Mismanaged assets, slow build-up to the Sedin-led era.


5. Buffalo Sabres (Ryan Miller era, 2002–2014)
Elite Goalie: Ryan Miller
Missed Opportunity: Failed to surround him with consistent forward talent post-2007. Thomas Vanek was good, but not enough depth.
Result: One strong run (2006), then decline. They never reloaded properly.
Why: Traded key forwards, cap mismanagement (e.g., overpaid secondary players), no elite D core.


6. Calgary Flames (Miikka Kiprusoff era, 2003–2013)
Elite Goalie: Miikka Kiprusoff
Missed Opportunity: Too reliant on Jarome Iginla with little support; weak drafting outside top rounds.
Result: One Cup Final (2004), then mediocrity.
Why: Failed to develop depth behind Iginla; defensive core eroded.

7. Montreal Canadiens (Carey Price era, 2007–2022)
Elite Goalie: Carey Price (5th overall, 2005)
Missed Opportunity: Drafted Price instead of a top forward (Anze Kopitar was available). Later years saw poor asset use (e.g., Subban for Weber; Sergachev trade).
Result: Strong seasons but only one Cup Final appearance (2021); inconsistent offense and injuries derailed chances.
Why: Focused on defense/goaltending identity; lack of elite centers until Suzuki; inconsistent roster strategy.


Why This Happens:
Overvaluing goalies: Some teams pick goalies instead of franchise centers or defensemen (DiPietro, Price).
Cap allocation: Locking up a goalie for big money limits flexibility elsewhere.
Roster imbalance: Investing in goaltending without a core of forwards/defense often leads to wasted prime years.

Key Takeaway
Building around an elite goalie first rarely works. The successful teams of the last 15 years mostly had elite skaters already, and the goaltender either emerged later or was plugged in. The few times it worked (e.g., Tampa, LA), the goalie wasn’t the foundational piece, but rather a complement to a loaded roster.

Almost like a proof point that AI sucks. Tampa built around an elite goalie and an elite winger, won two Cups. Florida built its team around a 10 million dollar a year goalie. Hopefully in a week or less they will have their 2nd Cup. Pretty common in recent years to build around elite goalies.

Ryan Miller and Backstrom being an elite goalie to build around and Vlasilevsky not being one is wild.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Almost like a proof point that AI sucks. Tampa built around an elite goalie and an elite winger, won two Cups. Florida built its team around a 10 million dollar a year goalie. Hopefully in a week or less they will have their 2nd Cup. Pretty common in recent years to build around elite goalies.

Ryan Miller and Backstrom being an elite goalie to build around and Vlasilevsky not being one is wild.

LOL, Florida doesn’t count because they have palm trees and no taxes. You can also wear flip flops and ride in your golf cart.

As the tank crew has pointed out there is one way and one way only (depending on who of them you ask) to rebuild.