[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As with most topics, there are a myriad of opinions regarding Treleving as a GM. And people take time to outline their thoughts in a great deal of detail on both sides.
Pretending that what you wrote above is the prevailing opinion and minimizing the arguments down to "he shields himself from all the blame and shifts it to everyone else" is pretty lame.

I don't know what site you are ready, but it ain't Calgarypuck.

Also when FlamesFan05 starts thanking your posts, it's time to re-evaluate what you are posting.

Also, to the extent posters explain or shift blame from Treliving, how is that actually Treliving shielding himself anyway? Unless he has proxies on here.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

As with most topics, there are a myriad of opinions regarding Treleving as a GM. And people take time to outline their thoughts in a great deal of detail on both sides.
Pretending that what you wrote above is the prevailing opinion and minimizing the arguments down to "he shields himself from all the blame and shifts it to everyone else" is pretty lame.

I don't know what site you are ready, but it ain't Calgarypuck.

Also when FlamesFan05 starts thanking your posts, it's time to re-evaluate what you are posting.

Dude, I’ve been outlining my thoughts about this subject in great deal for basically the past 6 to 7 years. I’ve pretty much written a damn book about this topic. It’s the same song and dance every other year where this place screams for a new head coach and every time I‘m left saying that nothing will change until this organization addresses the root of the problem. I’ve said that countless times over the years.

The final result this year was not a surprise for me as I had basically pegged this team as a bubble playoff team and I don’t know how anything changes since we’ve basically signed up for another 6-8 years of this or however long it takes for Kadri and Huberdeau’s contracts to finally end. So at this point, I feel pretty checked out as a fan of this team. So you’ll probably have to excuse me if I’m not pouring my heart and soul into every post.

[Enoch Root]

LOL. I guess we all should have been taking better notes as to what your opinions were over the years.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Also, to the extent posters explain or shift blame from Treliving, how is that actually Treliving shielding himself anyway? Unless he has proxies on here.

It’s not anything that he’s doing himself. It’s just the way this place seems to attack the coaches non-stop, regardless of who of it is. Now in recent times, it’s the ownership group. We don’t know anything concrete about their involvement in regards how how this team has been built, but the speculation has been rampant.

To me, all of these these ultimately funnel down to the GM. Regardless of what the mandate is/was, he didn’t execute. If the mandate was not to rebuild, then fine. But you have to pick better players to play within the existing system with the existing head coach and that didn’t happen.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

LOL. I guess we all should have been taking better notes as to what your opinions were over the years.

He should be our GM Everytime he posts about players and our performance he's Lebron James he just knew what the outcome would be.

I knew Johnny was going to score 100 points in 21/22 season.

I knew Huberdeau wouldn't work out in Calgary.

It's funny.

[dammage79]

Okay, so here's the thing with all the treliving hate. Every single ounce of it is fueled by hindsight. You can maybe put 3 bad moves on his shoulders in my opinion. 1. HAMONIC ,worst treliving move by a country mile. 2. James Neal, the cascading effect from that blunder finally ends this year. 3. Brouwer.
.those are his worst transgressions. Even over the shoddy Gulutzan hire that bore zero fruit. At least with Peter's he got a stellar season out of it before it all went to heck and Treliving had to deftly navigate that minefield with a ton of class and made the club look amazing through it.

As for Huberdeau and Kadri, these last two moves by tree have time to work themselves out. I don't much like Kadris deal but that's not egregious.

Truth be told, Trelivings tenure was great. He did the work but the ingredients didn't bake the cake.

Save for those 3 moves he made I posted earlier, you look at the context of when and where the team was at at the time and they rest of his efforts made a ton of sense. Can't blame him for Elliott faltering, Smith was okay for a year, the Hamilton aquisition trade still has a long long lifespan of bearing fruit for the organization still for years to come.

Let's face it, the players and organization let Tree down more than his own work did.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Dude, I’ve been outlining my thoughts about this subject in great deal for basically the past 6 to 7 years. I’ve pretty much written a damn book about this topic. It’s the same song and dance every other year where this place screams for a new head coach and every time I‘m left saying that nothing will change until this organization addresses the root of the problem. I’ve said that countless times over the years.

The final result this year was not a surprise for me as I had basically pegged this team as a bubble playoff team and I don’t know how anything changes since we’ve basically signed up for another 6-8 years of this or however long it takes for Kadri and Huberdeau’s contracts to finally end. So at this point, I feel pretty checked out as a fan of this team. So you’ll probably have to excuse me if I’m not pouring my heart and soul into every post.

You missed my point.
You do take the time to outline your thoughts with a great deal of effort.
So do many others.

You aren't the only one that puts a great deal of effort and care into their posts. Simplifying and minimizing how CP feels down to a line or two, completely ignores that high volume of thoughtful and detailed posts that happen on here every day.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Igottago

The Flames desperately need to find their next Iginla. A player who is considered amongst the best in the world, is an on and off ice leader, will attract good players to the team, represents the community with class, and has hall of fame potential. You need that foundational piece to build around. I think it would help if that next great player is Canadian as well. Someone who has roots in Canada and isn't looking to get out at the first opportunity.

I don't know how you get this without a rebuild and some pain.

They already declared (by contract) Jonathan Huberdeau is this person

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You missed my point.
You do take the time to outline your thoughts with a great deal of effort.
So do many others.

You aren't the only one that puts a great deal of effort and care into their posts. Simplifying and minimizing how CP feels down to a line or two, completely ignores that high volume of thoughtful and detailed posts that happen on here every day.

How are you getting any of this based on what I said? I didn’t even make the initial point that’s in question, I was basically just agreeing with GullFoss on what he had noticed with a joke. Like I said though, it’s what I have noticed as well and I did you even read the rest of what I had to say. I even complimented him at the end post-analysis. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill here man.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I'll drop it because no one enjoys two people snipping at each other.

But to clarify I was objecting to these type of posts:


Originally Posted by GullFoss View Post
Tre's good moves: Tre is a wizard and a saint.
Tre's bad moves: One of Canada's most a astute businessmen and dealmaker is a meddling bonehead owner that forced Tre's hand.

And then you:
Yep, I find that to be the case around here too. Treliving must truly be a wizard, because he's managed to find a way to shield himself from all the blame and somehow shift it to everyone else but himself.


I think that's an unfair minimization and reflection of why people defend Tree. People have gone to great lengths to explain why they think he is a good GM. You can disagree, but suggesting that those of us that think he's a good GM have that type of simplified view, is a mis-representation.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

He should be our GM Everytime he posts about players and our performance he's Lebron James he just knew what the outcome would be.

I knew Johnny was going to score 100 points in 21/22 season.

I knew Huberdeau wouldn't work out in Calgary.

It's funny.

Did I not call these right? You think this was all just an accident? You don’t think I noted how good that Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line was the first time we saw them way back in 2019? You don’t think I took the time out of my day to watch 3 Florida Panthers’ games to come up with that conclusion? How about when I said that Carter Verhaeghe would’ve been a more choice last year? And what did he do? Go from 24 goals to 42?

These aren’t just shots in the dark dude. Maybe instead of posting here a thousand times a day, you can actually watch the game itself and understand what I mean when I say checking. It’s not body checking like you thought I meant. So right there, I already knew what kind of great hockey mind you possessed.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

How are you getting any of this based on what I said? I didn’t even make the initial point that’s in question, I was basically just agreeing with GullFoss on what he had noticed with a joke. Like I said though, it’s what I have noticed as well and I did you even read the rest of what I had to say. I even complimented him at the end post-analysis. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill here man.

Yet, you’re the one who seems to be a little unhinged.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'll drop it because no one enjoys two people snipping at each other.

But to clarify I was objecting to these type of posts:


Originally Posted by GullFoss View Post
Tre's good moves: Tre is a wizard and a saint.
Tre's bad moves: One of Canada's most a astute businessmen and dealmaker is a meddling bonehead owner that forced Tre's hand.

And then you:
Yep, I find that to be the case around here too. Treliving must truly be a wizard, because he's managed to find a way to shield himself from all the blame and somehow shift it to everyone else but himself.


I think that's an unfair minimization and reflection of why people defend Tree. People have gone to great lengths to explain why they think he is a good GM. You can disagree, but suggesting that those of us that think he's a good GM have that type of simplified view, is a mis-representation.

That’s not what I said at all. I agreed with the premise of his joke and followed it up with another. It was just a bit levity which obviously was not taken in good humor. But I did go out of my way to list fair criticisms and fair compliments of Brad.

There’s no blind hatred here. I’m pretty fair when it comes to evaluating his work. He works hard, he’s a tough negotiator and he’s a smart guy who understands where the game is going. But like I’ve said numerous times before, he fails to execute in the most important expect of being a general manager in my opinion, which is talent evaluation.

You can sign all the good contracts you want, but if you make one or two or three or more mistakes on the open market, all that previous good work can be undone.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yep, I find that to be the case around here too. Treliving must truly be a wizard, because he's managed to find a way to shield himself from all the blame and somehow shift it to everyone else but himself.

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It’s not anything that he’s doing himself. It’s just the way this place seems to attack the coaches non-stop, regardless of who of it is. Now in recent times, it’s the ownership group. We don’t know anything concrete about their involvement in regards how how this team has been built, but the speculation has been rampant.

To me, all of these these ultimately funnel down to the GM. Regardless of what the mandate is/was, he didn’t execute. If the mandate was not to rebuild, then fine. But you have to pick better players to play within the existing system with the existing head coach and that didn’t happen.

Well, you were the one saying "he" shielded himself. But beside that, there's plenty of Treliving criticism on this forum. Multiple threads about him.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Yet, you’re the one who seems to be a little unhinged.

Yes, I am completely off the wall bonkers just lying here in the sun. Someone calm me down.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, you were the one saying "he" shielded himself. But beside that, there's plenty of Treliving criticism on this forum. Multiple threads about him.

Yes, shields, the things that bounce things off of it on to other things, like criticism. It was a joke being applied to someone else’s joke and I guess it triggered a lot of sensitivities here. My apologies, I take the joke back.

[PepsiFree]

Is this where I apply to be part of the CP monoculture?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Yes, shields, the things that bounce things off of it on to other things, like criticism. It was a joke being applied to someone else’s joke and I guess it triggered a lot of sensitivities here. My apologies, I take the joke back.

I'm in agreement with you largely here. I thought Treliving did great with the hand he was dealt with the Gaudreau and Tkachuk situation, but really messed up with the long term deals on aging players. I even said as much at the time, predicting myself a ~80 point player regression on Huberdeau in this system and it was taken pretty badly at the time. It's interesting to hear all the stories of how he's a good guy and all but there has to be some blame culturally of the controversies during his time. Whether he was too busy managing the hockey ops completely is one thing but with the apparent disgruntled players season after season (Gaudreau and Tkachuk sulking, Neal going off the rails, and I'm sure others that aren't coming to mind), there has to be some responsibility from the GM in not getting down to their level to understand further what the cause was. It lingered and lingered at the time. With Bill Peters that was out of left field completely and not his fault as it was out of the regular due diligence expectation as it happened a long time before that. Admittedly we don't know the details of what goes on behind the scenes within the organization, but I think it's fair to point the fingers upstairs at ownership/president/GM when there have been year after year failures at levels below them.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Did I not call these right? You think this was all just an accident? You don’t think I noted how good that Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line was the first time we saw them way back in 2019? You don’t think I took the time out of my day to watch 3 Florida Panthers’ games to come up with that conclusion? How about when I said that Carter Verhaeghe would’ve been a more choice last year? And what did he do? Go from 24 goals to 42?

These aren’t just shots in the dark dude. Maybe instead of posting here a thousand times a day, you can actually watch the game itself and understand what I mean when I say checking. It’s not body checking like you thought I meant. So right there, I already knew what kind of great hockey mind you possessed.

So you are the greatest hockey mind in the world because you just knew everything right?

Also I never said checking is body checking so right here you are just making things up.

Checking isn't a new term or style like you think when you keep saying last year's line was the greatest checkers that ever checked.

Ken Hitchcock has talked about checking long before Darryl talked about it.

[SilverKast]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Okay, so here's the thing with all the treliving hate. Every single ounce of it is fueled by hindsight. You can maybe put 3 bad moves on his shoulders in my opinion. 1. HAMONIC ,worst treliving move by a country mile. 2. James Neal, the cascading effect from that blunder finally ends this year. 3. Brouwer.
.those are his worst transgressions. Even over the shoddy Gulutzan hire that bore zero fruit. At least with Peter's he got a stellar season out of it before it all went to heck and Treliving had to deftly navigate that minefield with a ton of class and made the club look amazing through it.

As for Huberdeau and Kadri, these last two moves by tree have time to work themselves out. I don't much like Kadris deal but that's not egregious.

Truth be told, Trelivings tenure was great. He did the work but the ingredients didn't bake the cake.

Save for those 3 moves he made I posted earlier, you look at the context of when and where the team was at at the time and they rest of his efforts made a ton of sense. Can't blame him for Elliott faltering, Smith was okay for a year, the Hamilton aquisition trade still has a long long lifespan of bearing fruit for the organization still for years to come.

Let's face it, the players and organization let Tree down more than his own work did.

That's pretty much my take on it. I was happy with everything but these 3 things really - but they are 3 REALLY big problems for us. Because of those 3 items we lost a lot of draft capital, and we were stuck with albatross contracts that created our whole problem with Tkachuck to begin with. Without those we would have had the space to sign him long term.

I also wish Bennett had worked out better, but I don't put that on Tre at all. He was the consensus pick at the time and I had really high hopes for him. Also wish we didn't ship out Monahan along with a first. Hmm, I think that's it now...