2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Bingo]

How anyone could read that article and not see it as Conroy moving players out is beyond me.

"I have an idea of what I would like to get for each guy; an idea of what the return should be."

Thats says two players or more leaving ...

"I ask Don a lot of questions. How much do I call? How often? Am I bugging people by calling too much? Should I sit back a little more?"

That suggests he's the aggressor and not sitting on his hands at all, to the point where he asking experience people in house if he's pushing too much.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by dino7c

If Tkachuk didn't leave and Fox didn't bail they would absolutely be a top team IMO. They should have been smarter with RFAs/UFAs and young players and that seems to be happening

Fox? If Fox hadn't have wanted out, I assume the Hamilton / Hanifin/Lindholm trade would have looked different, or wouldn't have happened at all. Could have been a very different looking team.

If you'd have said Gaudreau instead of Fox though...

[SuperMatt18]

I do like the insight into both the Toffoli and Zadorov trades and how he acknowledged that they knew the fanbase/media wouldn't be huge fans of the return but they took the best offers available and did what they thought was best for the team even if optics weren't the best.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Fox? If Fox hadn't have wanted out, I assume the Hamilton / Hanifin/Lindholm trade would have looked different, or wouldn't have happened at all. Could have been a very different looking team.

If you'd have said Gaudreau instead of Fox though...

Okay, but then we keep our #16OA, and draft Barzal or Chabot.

Impossible to say how things play out in different scenarios, but one thing is certain: if Fox stays, we are better off than if he doesn't.

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by Bingo

How anyone could read that article and not see it as Conroy moving players out is beyond me.

"I have an idea of what I would like to get for each guy; an idea of what the return should be."

Thats says two players or more leaving ...

"I ask Don a lot of questions. How much do I call? How often? Am I bugging people by calling too much? Should I sit back a little more?"

That suggests he's the aggressor and not sitting on his hands at all, to the point where he asking experience people in house if he's pushing too much.

You should understand how a lot of CPers who complain are the type to skim these sorts of articles and not bother taking anything from them because they go against their own personal preferences for how the team should be operated.

It is not news that Calgary is against a full tear-down rebuild. Once you can understand this, it makes it easier to understand Conroy's decision making and eliminates a lot of the stress from the picture.

[Racki]

I think what would be frustrating for me if the Flames don't sell is that their top trade targets (other than Lindholm maybe) have done nothing but increase their value this year. We are actually in a position to "sell high" on Markstrom, Hanifin and Coleman. It would be a shame not to make the most of this opportunity.

[TheScorpion]

I would posit that it is far more painful to miss the playoffs by two points and pick 15th than it is to finish last and pick top-3.

[bdubbs]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would posit that it is far more painful to miss the playoffs by two points and pick 15th than it is to finish last and pick top-3.

Sure, in an ideal situation. But the Flames were never going to pick top-3.

[dino7c]

Chicago fell ass backwards into it anyway

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

We know they were negotiating for sure. That was confirmed by Conroy.

I don't think we know what was offered or rejected and by whom.

I think it was reported rather convincingly that Hanifin turned down $60 mill+ over 8 years.

The Flames offer on Lindholm doesn't seem to be as well reported. We heard he was looking for $9 mill+ over 8 years. It seemed like there was some serious negotiation going on, so I take it both sides were looking at 8 years and they could not have been too far apart. Mainly speculation on my part.

All that said, I don't get too caught up in what could have happened (or what might happen for that matter).

Maybe Smyl scores on a breakaway.

Every player ever drafted or acquired was likely at some point projected or discussed to be somewhere else. Circumstances and luck play a part in everything.

Let's see what they actually do.

[Vinny01]

For the people clamoring for the year it down tankbuild who deliberately did this and had massive success? Teams fall into periods where they have high picks but that doesn’t mean they fully intended on that. New York sent a letter to fans they were rebuilding but quickly signed Panarin and trade for Fox and Trouba and despite a couple of high picks that is not the reason they are near the top of the league.


I think of 3 teams that basically said they were going to go in the tank to build back up. Edmonton in 2010, Buffalo in 2013, and Ottawa in 2018

Edmonton has become the closest to doing something with that group but when they entered their tankbuild they already had multiple top 10 picks from 07, 09 which was part of their 11 top 10 picks in 13 year run. Ottawa is still completely stuck in the mid despite being capped out and Buffalo is also below the Flames in the standings.

Tankbuilds for small markets do not seem to be a winning formula. Now I think the Flames need to look to acquire more picks and draft higher than they have since the Tkachuk pick but I am not sure selling everyone off and then trying to win with young drafted players and the old free agents that are willing to sign here during bad times is going to launch the Flames back to contention. They have a better chance to go from mediocre to downright awful for a decade than they would going from mediocre to awful to elite in a 3-5 year timespan.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would posit that it is far more painful to miss the playoffs by two points and pick 15th than it is to finish last and pick top-3.

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Sure, in an ideal situation. But the Flames were never going to pick top-3.

Nor are they going to pick 15th

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

You should understand how a lot of CPers who complain are the type to skim these sorts of articles and not bother taking anything from them because they go against their own personal preferences for how the team should be operated.

It is not news that Calgary is against a full tear-down rebuild. Once you can understand this, it makes it easier to understand Conroy's decision making and eliminates a lot of the stress from the picture.

Happening in all walks of life.

People read for confirmation of what they think they're going to see.

I get it. Lots of talk about not wanting to sink to the bottom of the standings, but to me he says he's moving players, and he's impatient ... nothing about signing them all or walking them to free agency.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would posit that it is far more painful to miss the playoffs by two points and pick 15th than it is to finish last and pick top-3.

Depends on the sample size. Sure for 3-4 years I agree but what about for 7-10 years? When a team sucks for that long I have a hard time seeing this fanbase and market continuing to fill the building if the team sucks that long for a decade

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nor are they going to pick 15th

They might. They have one of the easiest schedules the rest of the way and they've already banked up enough points to go .500 through the first half. It's entirely possible.

Either way it feels a lot like a repeat of last year, when they missed the playoffs by two points and picked 16th.

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Depends on the sample size. Sure for 3-4 years I agree but what about for 7-10 years? When a team sucks for that long I have a hard time seeing this fanbase and market continuing to fill the building if the team sucks that long for a decade

If they keep picking outside the top 10 I'd say they'd have a better chance of this lull dragging on for 7-10 years. It took six years last time and that was with them making a 4th overall and two 6s.

[Redrum]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I would posit that it is far more painful to miss the playoffs by two points and pick 15th than it is to finish last and pick top-3.

I don't like to actually cheer for losses, but they REALLY need to avoid going on another winning streak after they are out of it. Like it's actually quite unacceptable this time.

[Vinny01]

I will tell you all this right now but if the Flames trade Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, and possible Greer, Vladar, and Dube for futures and then replace those guys with Pelletier, Coronato, Wolf, Poirier, Kylington, and whatever NHl players they get back and then go on a run to a playoff spot is that not the best case scenario?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I will tell you all this right now but if the Flames trade Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, and possible Greer, Vladar, and Dube for futures and then replace those guys with Pelletier, Coronato, Wolf, Poirier, Kylington, and whatever NHl players they get back and then go on a run to a playoff spot is that not the best case scenario?

Best case includes someone they trade with and get (unprotected) picks from falling into and somehow winning the lottery.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

They might. They have one of the easiest schedules the rest of the way and they've already banked up enough points to go .500 through the first half. It's entirely possible.

Either way it feels a lot like a repeat of last year, when they missed the playoffs by two points and picked 16th.



If they keep picking outside the top 10 I'd say they'd have a better chance of this lull dragging on for 7-10 years. It took six years last time and that was with them making a 4th overall and two 6s.

And they might pick 1st.

They are currently 24th in the league, despite excellent goaltending from Markstrom. And they are going to trade 1 or 2 of their top 4 defensemen, and their best C.

Is it more likely that they move up, or move down in the standings, in the 2nd half?

[stemit14]

I think back to the 2012-2013 and 2013-2014 seasons where the team “bottomed out” and it was really not that painful. That 2013-2014 season was where they adopted that “hardest working team in hockey” reputation. They lost lots of games but rarely went on long, continuous losing streaks. They were in a lot of games and were rarely an easy out. Felt like nothing as bad as what teams like San Jose are going through.

I think the most painful phase from a “scorched earth” rebuild can be what we are seeing now from Ottawa and Buffalo. You spend years losing and expect the team to eventually take a step and make the playoffs but still find yourself at the bottom of the standings. Not sure how to avoid those struggles of taking that step… I was one of the people that thought for sure Buffalo was about to become a top 6 team in their conference this year.