2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Exactly.

He's moved 2/5 free agents so far.
Hasn't extended anyone.
Has talked about youth and served it.
Was quoted talking about retention slots.

To believe they are rudderless or pivoting to keep the team intact is missing a lot of actual information, and falling helplessly for the platitudes given in interviews.

They had massive offers on the table for Lindholm and Hanafin didn't they? I'm not having a go at Conroy, but it's a stroke of luck those guys aren't signed to long term deals right now. I think the organization has been wishy washy about the direction they want to go. Maybe its clearer to them now.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I have a hard time seeing how anyone reading Duhatschek’s interview with Conroy posted today can still believe the franchise is interested in a rebuild.

The Flames are never going to rebuild.

[getbak]

Realistically, how much more do people think teams are willing to pay to acquire a player who is willing to negotiate a contract extension vs. a pure rental?

For example, looking at the Horvat and Tarasenko trades last year...

Horvat was traded with the intention of signing a long-term extension. In the trade, Vancouver received a 2023 1st round pick, a recent 2nd round pick who is playing in the AHL and appears to have NHL upside, and a cap dump who they were able to flip for a 2024 5th rounder.

Tarasenko was traded as a rental. In the trade, St. Louis received a 2023 1st round pick, a 2024 3rd round pick, and an AHLer who doesn't appear to have NHL upside. Mikkola and Blais were also involved in the trade, but they basically cancel each other out.



So, Vancouver got the better 2023 first rounder and a better prospect, but St. Louis got the better 2024 pick (and Vancouver had to make an additional trade to get their pick). It doesn't really seem like there was some huge overpayment for a player who is willing to re-sign like people seem to be expecting the Flames to get this year.

[Tkachukwagon]

Originally Posted by mile

https://twitter.com/user/status/1745116409842258377

Any nuggets from this interview? I cancelled my Athletic subscription a few months ago.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Igottago

They had massive offers on the table for Lindholm and Hanafin didn't they? I'm not having a go at Conroy, but it's a stroke of luck those guys aren't signed to long term deals right now. I think the organization has been wishy washy about the direction they want to go. Maybe its clearer to them now.

Yeah it's not a shot at Conroy but we know they absolutely had massive offers to both of them at the start of the year. From what has been reported, it's not like they were only willing to sign them at a discount.

So while Conroy may be more willing to trade away core pieces than his predecessor, it's undeniable that they were prepared to stick with this core not that long ago.

I hope that he is flexible and willing to respond to changing circumstances, that seems like a strength.

But imagine for a second that this team is at the same spot in the standings and Lindholm and Hanifin both signed 8 year deals totalling $130 million at the end of training camp.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I have a hard time seeing how anyone reading Duhatschek’s interview with Conroy posted today can still believe the franchise is interested in a rebuild.

Personally, I feel you want to be competitive, and you want your team to win. So, there is a balance between short- and long-term.

You want to be competitive. You want to have success. You want to get your young guys in, but you want to put them in an environment with some veteran guys that can show them how the NHL works.

There are different ways to do it. One way is to go right to the bottom and try to build it back up.

To be at the very bottom, that’s a lot of pain. And the one thing you don’t want to do, you never want to accept losing

I have an idea of what I would like to get for each guy; an idea of what the return should be. You’re looking for fair value.

I probably am a bit more impatient and would like to do things quicker. But I also want to make sure it’s the right deal. I wouldn’t do something just to do it. That doesn’t make any sense.

I still believe that you can’t let assets walk out the door. ... we have to make sure we have assets coming back. The problem is, what is the value in the end?

But money in, money out is such a big thing these days, with the cap being the way it’s been the last three years. ... then there’s how you might retain. You only have three slots.

Now, with everybody so tight against the cap, sure there are deals you’d like to make, but you can’t make it work unless you have to take back a certain player you don’t really want

You want to build a foundation moving forward and it’s hard. Some teams don’t have the draft picks because they’ve gone for it in previous years. Last year, at the draft, first-round picks were hard to come by. Everybody just knows how valuable picks can be.

I knew when we made the deal that people wouldn’t be overly excited. But if I was going to get younger and start building the team the way I wanted to, I couldn’t keep the same team completely coming back. So I understand that. It’s hard to find players. You want to keep adding to that stable of young players.

You can draft a million players, but if you’re not going to give them a chance, you’re not going to know what you have.

Now that they see where people are in the standings, it gives everybody a clearer picture of what they want to do. They give me the vision of their team and I give them my vision of ours.

https://theathletic.com/5180793/2024...-craig-conroy/

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

Any nuggets from this interview? I cancelled my Athletic subscription a few months ago.

Excerpts:

Duhatschek: Many people want things to change and improve instantly. Others believe in going scorched-earth and starting over, which can be long, painful and doesn’t necessarily always translate into success either. Where do you stand on that short-term, long-term spectrum?

Conroy: I know some people believe in the full rebuild. Personally, I feel you want to be competitive, and you want your team to win…

Duhatschek: I understand the philosophy of, ‘I want to win every night.’ The only problem with that is, you don’t get a Connor Bedard that way. You don’t get a Leo Carlsson …

Conroy: No, you don’t.

Duhatschek: So presumably, part of the long-range plan includes the acknowledgment that you probably won’t get a cornerstone player because you’re probably not choosing first, second or third overall in the draft, something that only happens to teams that are really, really bad.

Conroy: Which is true. You have to be really, really bad — unless you win the lottery. And now, you can’t move up that far anymore. There are different ways to do it. One way is to go right to the bottom and try to build it back up. We had the fourth overall pick and two sixths, with (Sean) Monahan, (Sam) Bennett and (Matthew) Tkachuk and we had a good run. They were all very good players. But that’s over.

Wherever you do pick, you have to make the best pick you can. To be at the very bottom, that’s a lot of pain. And the one thing you don’t want to do, you never want to accept losing because you can’t just tell a team, “Now we’re going to turn it on and win” with people who’ve gotten used to losing. For me, that doesn’t work.

Duhatschek: So where do things stand at the moment?

Conroy: … If there was no cap and you were just trading players and picks, life would be simpler. In the old days, Detroit, Toronto and New York could spend what they wanted to spend. Now, with everybody so tight against the cap, sure there are deals you’d like to make, but you can’t make it work unless you have to take back a certain player you don’t really want — and you think, “That doesn’t make any sense.”

I know people making trades in fantasy sports, they can just make a deal and move on. For us, we’re dealing with real people in real situations. You want to build a foundation moving forward and it’s hard. Some teams don’t have the draft picks because they’ve gone for it in previous years. Last year, at the draft, first-round picks were hard to come by. Everybody just knows how valuable picks can be.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

Any nuggets from this interview? I cancelled my Athletic subscription a few months ago.

Made it clear he is not interested in losing and racing to the bottom of the standings.

Mentioned again how valuable the money saved in the Zadorov trade is.

Referenced how they only got 87 NHL games out of the returns for the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades. Not good enough.

Talks about how hard it is to make trades today with the money situation. How first round picks are hard to get and a lot of good teams have already traded these picks away.

Talks about the human side of trades.

I get the distinct impression he’s not interested in being at the bottom of the standings for the next few years and is thinking about how to build a winner without the benefit of super high draft picks.

[shutout]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

Any nuggets from this interview? I cancelled my Athletic subscription a few months ago.

My take away from it is that Conroy wants the team to get younger, faster, and more skilled. And while burning it to the ground is an option to get elite players, that plan does not always work. It creates a team culture of losing that is very hard to turn around once you acquire the talent you are looking for.

He would rather have a team that is competitive and trying to win every year that integrates younger talent into it. Draft picks are important. And trading assets for draft picks does not always help.

Mentions the less than 100 games from the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades. Have to wonder if that is what is impacting his thoughts on a Hanifin deal.
Know what you have in the player as opposed to future hopes and wishes.

Reiterated that you cannot lose assets for nothing.
So have to think that unless you are a league minimum salary player if you are a UFA you will be traded unless you are signed by the trade deadline.

He talked about how salary concerns for all of the teams are making it harder to do deals and how some teams have already mortgaged their futures so it makes it difficult to do deals with them.

[Strange Brew]

Geez guys. I don’t know about quoting huge chunks of an article behind a paywall.

[OILFAN #81]

Knies went down hard in practice for the Leafs and had to be helped off the ice by teammates. Not sure how serious the injury is for the Leafs but could spark some trade rumors if he's out for any length of time.

[Flames1217]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Made it clear he is not interested in losing and racing to the bottom of the standings.

Mentioned again how valuable the money saved in the Zadorov trade is.

Referenced how they only got 87 NHL games out of the returns for the Iginla and Bouwmeester trades. Not good enough.

Talks about how hard it is to make trades today with the money situation. How first round picks are hard to get and a lot of good teams have already traded these picks away.

Talks about the human side of trades.

I get the distinct impression he’s not interested in being at the bottom of the standings for the next few years and is thinking about how to build a winner without the benefit of super high draft picks.

And I agree with him, seems like he intends on building the team the right way.

Losing should never be accepted, and bottoming out surely doesn't guarantee future success. You need to draft well, be smart with your cash and identify the right players and team identity to win.

I am not interested in watching a team who is intentionally tanking.

[ForeverFlameFan]

“You can draft a million players, but if you’re not going to give them a chance, you’re not going to know what you have.”

My favorite quote from Conroy. It’s because of that we don’t necessarily NEED a top 10 pick if we continue to be a middling team. As long as the prospects get a chance we will be able to know who can stick around in the NHL. And better chances of finding franchise players.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Igottago

They had massive offers on the table for Lindholm and Hanafin didn't they? I'm not having a go at Conroy, but it's a stroke of luck those guys aren't signed to long term deals right now. I think the organization has been wishy washy about the direction they want to go. Maybe its clearer to them now.

Hanifin for sure. The only thing that was mentioned on Lindholm was that he was looking for 9 million. Never heard the Flames offer if there was one

[SuperMatt18]

I do think there is potentially a lot of posturing going on right now. The salary cap is a real issue for all teams trying to make moves and really nobody has any space until closer to the deadline...wouldn't be surprised if we see things Heat up right around the all-star break.

Reading between the lines in the Conroy article you can tell there are things teams are trying to do right now...that would require the Flames to take more cap than they'd like back and they want to avoid that.

I posted this last week but even if the Flames were pushing to make a deal right now it would be tough, nobody has the room.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Just because it's a new year...but here is a cap space update for potential buyers.

Teams in LTIR:

Leafs: $341k (No players returning to fit in)
Lightning: $390k (No players returning to fit in)
Avalanche: $5.7M (Lehkonen - $4.5M)
Vegas: $3.5M (Theodore - $5.2M)
Capitals: $5.2M (Oshie - $5.7M, Milano - $1.9M)
Canucks: $3.7M (Soucy - $3.2M)
Kings: $3.3M (Arvidsson - $4.25M)
Penguins: $2.9M (Rust - $5.1M)
Bruins: $2.7M (Forbort - $3.0M)
Islanders: $9.9M (Pulock - $6.2M, Pelech - $5.8M)
Oilers: $1.0M (No players returning to fit in)
Rangers: $6.5M (Chytil - $4.4M, Kakko - $2.1M)

So the problem for the Flames is all these teams have no cap space, aren't accruing cap space, and the players they have returning are important pieces. So unless they are done for the season you need to leave room to fit them back in.

Flames will have to retain, and likely take a bad contract back if they want to be able to deal with any of these teams. Big thing here though is any of these teams have no incentive to wait until the deadline to make a deal, they aren't accruing cap space anyways so really they can make a trade now if they are going to remain in LTIR anyways.

Teams Accruing Cap Space

Dallas: $37K / $100k
St. Louis: $1.1M / $2.9M
New Jersey: $1.5M / $4.0M
Winnipeg: $1.9M / $4.9M
Flyers: $2.3M / $6.7M
Panthers: $1.3M / $6.0M
Hurricanes: $3.2M / $8.3M
Detroit: $4.3M / $10.9M
Arizona: $6.0M / $15.5M
Nashville: $14.6M / $37.6M

These are the teams where waiting until the deadline would probably garner the biggest return on a trade. The cap accumulation plus possible retention will make it easier for teams to fit guys in then.

Overall though as much as I'd love to see a trade here right away this view make it tough to see exactly how it's going to happen.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah it's not a shot at Conroy but we know they absolutely had massive offers to both of them at the start of the year. From what has been reported, it's not like they were only willing to sign them at a discount.

So while Conroy may be more willing to trade away core pieces than his predecessor, it's undeniable that they were prepared to stick with this core not that long ago.

I hope that he is flexible and willing to respond to changing circumstances, that seems like a strength.

But imagine for a second that this team is at the same spot in the standings and Lindholm and Hanifin both signed 8 year deals totalling $130 million at the end of training camp.

We know they were negotiating for sure. That was confirmed by Conroy.

I don't think we know what was offered or rejected and by whom.

[Royle9]

Unfortunately this “philosophy” of not wanting to strip the team down to the bones and rebuild properly is exactly why the flames have been stuck in 2 decades of mediocrity.

Clearly that’s not changing, which is a bigger issue all together.

Didn’t expect anything less, but it hurts to read.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Goriders

The Flames are never going to rebuild.

The Flames are already rebuilding.

I think what you are saying is that they will never do a tear-it-down rebuild, and that may be true. But if you are making significant changes to your core, and trading out core UFAs for picks and prospects and younger players, then are are, by definition, rebuilding.

And that is what they are doing - they are rebuilding right now

[dino7c]

I mean they do have 2 division titles including a 2nd overall finish

not very mediocre

If Tkachuk didn't leave and Fox didn't bail they would absolutely be a top team IMO. They should have been smarter with RFAs/UFAs and young players and that seems to be happening

The Toffoli trade

Younger player who is upcoming and nearly as good plus a pick vs. signing a retirement contract

[SuperMatt18]

Yeah the scorched earth rebuild path isn't likely to be the Flames model.

They are going to look at Winnipeg, Boston, Dallas, and try to replicate more what those teams have done.

I don't see them going full Chicago or San Jose with it.