The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[PegCityFlamesFan]

So you're talking about Doan, who played in Winnipeg and said he would play there again?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

If I recall the quote...oh wait here it is....



By guys i assumed it would be more than a couple. My apologies I didn't take a poll

I don't doubt they would all prefer to stay in Phoenix, hell I would, but given the choice of moving to Winnipeg and making 3 or 4 mill a year or sitting on their arses hoping some other team will have roster space for them in a cappped league with a glut of free agents most of them will bite the bullet and play in the Peg.

[tjinaz]

I think that is the option you are looking for.

With the cap there really aren't that many making 4mil and the way the team is made up, they can easily find jobs in more pleasant locales. It really is a team of pluggers all pulling on the same rope.

Doan will never say he would not play there but... without Bryz any hopes this team has of being successful are not great. He is entering the downward slope of his career and his loyalty is with the Phoenix Coyotes not Winnipeg. His family grew up in Phoenix not in Winnipeg. I would not be surprised to see him ask for a trade to a contender to finish out his career.

Oh and since you brought it up... hmm Belanger said

but I've chatted with guys that have played (in Winnipeg) and don't want to go back.

Who, without naming any names, played in Winnipeg and likely doesn't want to go back?

[ken0042]

If you guys want to discuss which players may or may not want to play in Winnipeg; please use the thread dedicated to that sub-topic.

[afc wimbledon]

I think that is the option you are looking for.

Nope, the yotes are a fairly lousy team made up of other teams left overs, most of them will be looking at the Peg or retirement.

[tjinaz]

Nope, the yotes are a fairly lousy team made up of other teams left overs, most of them will be looking at the Peg or retirement.

That made the playoffs the last two years in the toughest division in the league.

But you are partially right. With Bryz they had a chance to win and with Tippets system and their dedication to it got the most out of their meager talents. Won't last though. The losses of Michalek and Lombardi made the rematch against the wings go from a 7 game series to a sweep. They ownership situation needs to be resolved one way or another before the free agent season starts or they will suck even if they stay in PHX.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

And there are at least two documents filed in bankruptcy court showing those rights assigned to previous owners Ellman and Moyes as the arena operators and team owners.

Goldwater's wording on this is always amusing, first saying the city has the rights then adding, "and even if they didn't ......." with the semantic argument $100 million couldn't be generated in any event. They don't seem so sure of their own argument.

Cowperson

Cowperson

If GWI's case is as porous as you make it out to be, why doesn't Glendale and Hulsizer simply sue them or call their bluff?

The two major levers that GWI says they have are the gifts: 1) the parking that GWI contends is already the property of Glendale and 2) the sole sourced operations management fee (that many contend is over valued, or at minimum should have been competitively bid).

From your posts, it sounds like GWI does not have a case...and yet here we are, with nothing moving forward...obviously GWI is going to oppose anything that they see as being a corporate handout.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

If GWI's case is as porous as you make it out to be, why doesn't Glendale and Hulsizer simply sue them or call their bluff?

The two major levers that GWI says they have are the gifts: 1) the parking that GWI contends is already the property of Glendale and 2) the sole sourced operations management fee (that many contend is over valued, or at minimum should have been competitively bid).

From your posts, it sounds like GWI does not have a case...and yet here we are, with nothing moving forward...obviously GWI is going to oppose anything that they see as being a corporate handout.

GWI doesn't need to have a case to achieve their goal, the looming threat of a suit does that on it's own.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Although the city claims it doesn't own the rights it refuses to produce any documents showing when or for how much it sold them. (the 'how much' being fairly important on a bond issue) the GI's objection has been so far that they don't think parking will make as much money as the city projects and without some paperwork forcoming showing otherwise the city already owns it.

It would be a simple thing for the city to prove, so one does tend to think they are hiding something, either the 100 million parking rights were given away for little or nothing on the grounds they are all but worthless in a suburban mall setting surrounded by free parking (my guess) or the city still owns them.

Another thought is, if True North did end up buying the Coyotes would they then own the parking rights? No? Well then how does Glendale not own the parking rights at Westgate?

You can't just give the Coyotes parking rights in a lease and then have them sell it back to you. That's a gift.

[VO #23]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

And there are at least two documents filed in bankruptcy court showing those rights assigned to previous owners Ellman and Moyes as the arena operators and team owners.

Goldwater's wording on this is always amusing, first saying the city has the rights then adding, "and even if they didn't ......." with the semantic argument $100 million couldn't be generated in any event. They don't seem so sure of their own argument.

Cowperson

Cowperson

This type of "in the alternative" language is pretty standard in legal documents. It is meant to cover your butt if the judge doesn't buy your first line of argumentation, and you need to go to a second. I really wouldn't read too much into it, it is merely an effective legal drafting technique.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by moon

He said it was apocalyptic? Sounded more like the he said the Flames and Oilers have/will express concerns about the effect on their TV markets and revenue loss from loss of fans to the Jets. Seems exactly what they would do as they would be effected in both areas.

Yes, but Francis is an idiot, and you would be wise to ignore what he says.

The Flames and Oilers have 10-year deals with Sportsnet that goes through 2019-2020. The risk in splitting the region is Rogers', not ours.

Any hit the Flames/Oilers take in merchandising will be offset by gains made in sales of Winnipeg gear - merchandising revenues are split evenly across the league, which Francis conveniently ignores.

So really, Francis is just making wild assumptions to troll for a reaction, and you fell for it.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yes, but Francis is an idiot, and you would be wise to ignore what he says.

The Flames and Oilers have 10-year deals with Sportsnet that goes through 2019-2020. The risk in splitting the region is Rogers', not ours.

Any hit the Flames/Oilers take in merchandising will be offset by gains made in sales of Winnipeg gear - merchandising revenues are split evenly across the league, which Francis conveniently ignores.

So really, Francis is just making wild assumptions to troll for a reaction, and you fell for it.

I 100% agree that Francis is an idiot but fail to see how having more games pushed to Sportsnet Flames is a good thing for the Flames or its fans.

[Resolute 14]

That doesn't cost the Flames "millions of dollars", so you are now changing the argument. And depending on how many people get Sportsnet One vs. Sportsnet West, the truth is, the difference could be negligible. SNOne was always part of my Shaw package, and I think the same is true for most.

Also, given MMF has suggested Rogers would consider splitting the network into two stations, that means it would still be just the Flames and Oilers on Sportsnet Alberta/Prairies/whatever, so the alignment of games would not change. The risk in this case is Rogers' as they would have higher production costs (3 teams vs. 2) and consequently have to figure out how to increase revenue to cover the costs of the deals with the teams and production of the games.

[MacGruber]

I'm sure that if the oilers were lost to Houston in the late 90's (it took Bettman to stop the sale as commish and save the team personally) we here in Calgary would welcome back the Oilers despite it possibly costing the team revenue as being the only game in town in Alberta.

Perhaps we should extend the same courtesy to our neighbors 2 provinces away. All this anti Winnipeg sentiment on this board is pretty exclusive for Canadian team message boards and perplexing, frankly.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That doesn't cost the Flames "millions of dollars", so you are now changing the argument. And depending on how many people get Sportsnet One vs. Sportsnet West, the truth is, the difference could be negligible. SNOne was always part of my Shaw package, and I think the same is true for most.

I don't remember Francis saying that it would cost the Flames and Oilers millions of dollars just that they would have issues with the Jets coming back, so not sure how I am changing the argument at all.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't remember Francis saying that it would cost the Flames and Oilers millions of dollars just that they would have issues with the Jets coming back, so not sure how I am changing the argument at all.

Francis did say it would cost the Flames and Oilers millions of dollars though.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

I'm sure that if the oilers were lost to Houston in the late 90's (it took Bettman to stop the sale as commish and save the team personally) we here in Calgary would welcome back the Oilers despite it possibly costing the team revenue as being the only game in town in Alberta.

Perhaps we should extend the same courtesy to our neighbors 2 provinces away. All this anti Winnipeg sentiment on this board is pretty exclusive for Canadian team message boards and perplexing, frankly.

If Winnipeg looked like it was a viable market then many people would welcome it back with open arms but the prospect of adding a small, poor community with a tiny rink with little luxury boxes to a league that already has a lot of struggling franchises isn't really appealing to many fans.

The Canadian angle to it is just BS. Not sure why people care more about a bad market just because it is Canadian.

[moon]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Francis did say it would cost the Flames and Oilers millions of dollars though.

Thats why I said I didn't remember him saying the millions of dollars part. I thought he said that they would raise issues about the move because of the possibility of it costing them money did not hear him actually say a number.

[MacGruber]

Originally Posted by moon

If Winnipeg looked like it was a viable market then many people would welcome it back with open arms but the prospect of adding a small, poor community with a tiny rink with little luxury boxes to a league that already has a lot of struggling franchises isn't really appealing to many fans.

The Canadian angle to it is just BS. Not sure why people care more about a bad market just because it is Canadian.

There is no BS canadian angle. Every message board across Canada for hockey is vastly in favour. Just the local hate club here on CP seems to think they know better than billionaire business men willing to use their own money, unlike MH.

[moon]

Originally Posted by MacGruber

There is no BS canadian angle. Every message board across Canada for hockey is vastly in favour. Just the local hate club here on CP seems to think they know better than billionaire business men willing to use their own money, unlike MH.

Which billionaire business men are those? There is one possible billionaire involved and that is Thompson and there is a lot of talk out there that he is really interested in the TO market and sees this as an opportunity to get his foot in the door and move the team when it fails to make money.

There is a BS Canadian angle as it makes no sense to support a market or team just because it is from Canada. It is a made sentiment that makes 0 sense at all. Especially when said market is a have-not in the current NHL model.