The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[afc wimbledon]

But the city already owns the parking rights so anything it pays for parking, the 100 million, is just a gift, it matters not whether the parking will pay out on the bond or not, it is already the cities.

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by valo403

There's also no benefit of coming to Canada, unlike the large upside of expanding into large US markets. An NBA presence in Calgary adds very little to the league in even a best case scenario. The same can't be sad about expansion into a place like Phoenix.

True enough. They've tried it already twice, failed miserably on one count, and the second's 84% attendance and mediocre television ratings aren't exactly an indicator of resounding success. If it doesn't work in Vancouver and barely works in Tronna, smaller cities won't even be on the radar.

[afc wimbledon]

nm

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

But the city already owns the parking rights so anything it pays for parking, the 100 million, is just a gift, it matters not whether the parking will pay out on the bond or not, it is already the cities.

Glendale does not own the parking rights. It is buying them.

Cowperson

[MacGruber]

GWI has documents that show they own the parking rights already.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Eric Francis making himself looking like a jackass right now on CBC.

Hate to say it but I agree with Healy. Flames will be happy to have Jets back. TV won't be a problem at all. SN already has too many effing channels.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

But the city already owns the parking rights so anything it pays for parking, the 100 million, is just a gift, it matters not whether the parking will pay out on the bond or not, it is already the cities.

Originally Posted by MacGruber

GWI has documents that show they own the parking rights already.

And there are at least two documents filed in bankruptcy court showing those rights assigned to previous owners Ellman and Moyes as the arena operators and team owners.

Goldwater's wording on this is always amusing, first saying the city has the rights then adding, "and even if they didn't ......." with the semantic argument $100 million couldn't be generated in any event. They don't seem so sure of their own argument.

Cowperson

Cowperson

[jayswin]

I always thought signing your post off with your username was kind of wierd, as your username is already there for people to see, so there isn't typically too much confusion over who typed what post. But the old double sign off seems a little extreme.

[Joborule]

Agreed. I don't think Flames and Oilers would care too much about Jets coming back. Eric Francis is just trying to look like he's an insider and knows whats up to the nation.

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

True enough. They've tried it already twice, failed miserably on one count, and the second's 84% attendance and mediocre television ratings aren't exactly an indicator of resounding success. If it doesn't work in Vancouver and barely works in Tronna, smaller cities won't even be on the radar.

The NBA scenario is similar here with struggling NHL teams. With the Grizzles they sucked balls so little interest in them. And Toronto supports everything enough that even if Raptors were god awful they'll still get enough attendance wise. Win more and they'll get more attention.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Eric Francis making himself looking like a jackass right now on CBC.

Hate to say it but I agree with Healy. Flames will be happy to have Jets back. TV won't be a problem at all. SN already has too many effing channels.

Why will the Flames be happy? They already sell out the arena and have a long waiting list for season tickets.

It isn't like the Jets are going to improve the teams ticket sales and unless they create a new Sportsnet channel having 3 teams on SNW will be a pain in the ass and will cost the Flames money.

It sounds cool to someone in the East to have another Western team to add to the rivalry but financially it isn't a great move for the Oilers and Flames for every reason that Francis mentioned and the rivalry will still be 3 best at most and take a year or two at least to build.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by moon

Why will the Flames be happy? They already sell out the arena and have a long waiting list for season tickets.

They don't actually sellout the arena, and actually started aggressivly marketing a lot of games this past season.

[moon]

Originally Posted by flameswin

They don't actually sellout the arena, and actually started aggressivly marketing a lot of games this past season.

Does having a team in Winnipeg change this other than what 4 games a season?

What would the difference in a Winnipeg game versus a Phoenix game? 500-1000 tickets max? In the cheapest seats.

The season tickets are sold out and with a waiting list so the Flames have pretty much maxed out its major ticket revenue the boost with the Jets coming back is going to be pretty minimal.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by moon

It sounds cool to someone in the East to have another Western team to add to the rivalry but financially it isn't a great move for the Oilers and Flames for every reason that Francis mentioned and the rivalry will still be 3 best at most and take a year or two at least to build.

Every single point Francis made was completely ######ed. The Flames won't care one iota and if anything they will be happy to have a rivalry back.

It won't cost them millions in TV revenues as Francis suggested. That is BS.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Every single point Francis made was completely ######ed. The Flames won't care one iota and if anything they will be happy to have a rivalry back.

It won't cost them millions in TV revenues as Francis suggested. That is BS.

How does the rivalry add any revenue to the Flames?

Francis was right in them losing fans and merchandise for fans that go back to the Jets. The Jets coming into the Sportsnet West market is bad for the Flames. Not sure how it will affect them monetarily but it certainly isn't adding to the revenue they get from Sportsnet.

At best the Jets are the 3rd rival behind the Oilers and Canucks and unless they are good (which is unlikely looking at the potential roster) we have seen with the Oilers over the past few years that location is not enough to keep up a rivalry.

Healy was dead wrong on the impact of a "rival" coming back and dead wrong on the TV issue as well.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by moon

How does the rivalry add any revenue to the Flames?

Francis was right in them losing fans and merchandise for fans that go back to the Jets. The Jets coming into the Sportsnet West market is bad for the Flames. Not sure how it will affect them monetarily but it certainly isn't adding to the revenue they get from Sportsnet.

At best the Jets are the 3rd rival behind the Oilers and Canucks and unless they are good (which is unlikely looking at the potential roster) we have seen with the Oilers over the past few years that location is not enough to keep up a rivalry.

Healy was dead wrong on the impact of a "rival" coming back and dead wrong on the TV issue as well.

Who said the rivalry would make the Flames $$? I said they'd be happy. Not that they'd get more $$ because of it. Happy because a strong rivalry with Winnipeg is good for the division. That's 3 more high ratings sell outs instead of who cares games vs Colorado. It'll make the fans happy too.

Also, have you ever heard of revenue sharing? More Jets merch is good for the Flames.

At worst the Flames don't care. It isn't apocalyptic like Francis said. The Flames aren't going to lose "millions upon millions" just because the Jets come back. That is Francis being Francis.

And how is it unlikely that they won't be good? You realize Pho finished ahead of the Flames the last 2 years right?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Who said the rivalry would make the Flames $$? I said they'd be happy. Not that they'd get more $$ because of it. Happy because a strong rivalry with Winnipeg is good for the division. That's 3 more high ratings sell outs instead of who cares games vs Colorado. It'll make the fans happy too.

I don't think the difference between a Colorado game and Winnipeg game would be that different since the high priced season tickets are already sold no matter who the team is that they are playing.

Also, have you ever heard of revenue sharing? More Jets merch is good for the Flames.

How much would the Flames actually see out of that money? Can't be much if any at all.

At worst the Flames don't care. It isn't apocalyptic like Francis said. The Flames aren't going to lose "millions upon millions" just because the Jets come back. That is Francis being Francis.

He said it was apocalyptic? Sounded more like the he said the Flames and Oilers have/will express concerns about the effect on their TV markets and revenue loss from loss of fans to the Jets. Seems exactly what they would do as they would be effected in both areas.

And how is it unlikely that they won't be good? You realize Pho finished ahead of the Flames the last 2 years right?

I do and I also realize that they are losing their MVP of the last two years and a guy that will be very tough, if not impossible, to replace.

They also might lose their captain and best forward and if I am not mistaken they have a ton of UFA's as well.

It looks like Phoenix will take a step back next season and probably the season after as well.

[tjinaz]

And how is it unlikely that they won't be good? You realize Pho finished ahead of the Flames the last 2 years right?

Because half the team will follow Bryz's lead and refuse to go to Winnipeg.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

So Belanger, Bryz and Verbata are half the team? You're bs trolling is really getting pathetic.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

And there are at least two documents filed in bankruptcy court showing those rights assigned to previous owners Ellman and Moyes as the arena operators and team owners.

Goldwater's wording on this is always amusing, first saying the city has the rights then adding, "and even if they didn't ......." with the semantic argument $100 million couldn't be generated in any event. They don't seem so sure of their own argument.

Cowperson

Cowperson

Although the city claims it doesn't own the rights it refuses to produce any documents showing when or for how much it sold them. (the 'how much' being fairly important on a bond issue) the GI's objection has been so far that they don't think parking will make as much money as the city projects and without some paperwork forcoming showing otherwise the city already owns it.

It would be a simple thing for the city to prove, so one does tend to think they are hiding something, either the 100 million parking rights were given away for little or nothing on the grounds they are all but worthless in a suburban mall setting surrounded by free parking (my guess) or the city still owns them.

[tjinaz]

So Belanger, Bryz and Verbata are half the team? You're bs trolling is really getting pathetic.

If I recall the quote...oh wait here it is....

"The guys have been talking about it a bit more every day, and the one sure thing is that we want to play in Phoenix and not in Winnipeg," Belanger told Sun Sports. "Personally, and I won't name any names, but I've chatted with guys that have played (in Winnipeg) and don't want to go back. There are reasons why hockey wasn't working in Winnipeg at the end, I don't see how that would have changed." "There are good fans there, but Winnipeg is still Winnipeg," Belanger said in the report. "In January and February, I doubt that my family would follow me out there for a holiday.

By guys i assumed it would be more than a couple. My apologies I didn't take a poll

How about we say the cornerstone of the team in Bryz and more than a few of the top 6 forwards and some of the veteran D.