I suspect my landlord is not paying tax on my rent

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by First Lady

LOL.... my family says the same thing...



G'nite.

How many times have you called 311?

[Knut]

The fact is. You are not doing your duty as proper citizen if you are not trying to pay less in tax than you have to.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by 4X4

I did not say that.

Originally Posted by 4X4

When I call Locke, I'll get him to write off the losses the business takes from the ###### tenants that let their dogs chew the baseboards. Until then, I'll spend my time making sure that the people that didn't qualify for their own mortgages are happy living in one of my suites, while I pay the property taxes and all the maintenance costs associated with a property. And if I ever end up with a little whiner like the d-bag that started this thread, I'll scrawl Revenue Canada's ph# on his eviction notice so that he can rat me out.

Originally Posted by algernon

As for First Lady- isn't it a bookkeeper's job to advise their clients on what they can and can't do? IE: If I wasn't sure about a tax-break, and asked you if I could claim it, would you take that to mean I'm trying to commit tax evasion and rat me out??? OR on another tack, should a lawyer rat me out if I ask for advice on a matter that turns out be illegal if I follow through?

Asking a bookkeeper, accountant or financial advisor about possible tax implications is quite different than filing false returns or not filing at all.

Bookkeepers and lawyers both hold client confidentiality in a high regard. However bookkeepers are not require to "cover up" when a client breaks the law. Quite the opposite actually, as a bookkeeper or accountant, if you are aware of situation like this your own hide is on the line.

Now this doesn't mean you have to straight to reporting them. Depending on the severity, it might be something that could be handled through the "voluntary disclosure" program.

http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/gncy/nvstgtns/vdp-eng.html

Originally Posted by photon

This whole discussion is silly.

ALL of you would be snitches at one point or another, the severity of the offense and your confidence in the person being guilty being two factors in deciding.

Pretty much everyone would snitch if they were pretty sure their neighbour was guilty of murdering their spouse, or snitch on the guy who hangs around the school yard with a long lens camera every day.

Everyone just has different levels at which they decide something becomes worth doing it for. Some people are swayed by the visibility of the victim, tax evasion appears more like a victimless crime. How can a discussion get so heated when it's basically a case of slightly different levels of tolerance?

The fact that "there's no paper" trail... given the # of landlords that seem to do that out of ignorance I don't think it's that big a deal. It's far more likely that it's simply a guy who has no idea of the landlord tenant act. An easy way to test would be to simply request a rental agreement, or even draw one up to have the guy sign it. If he refuses, then you have a better idea.

You are very correct regarding level at which someone feels compelled to get involved and act.

I guess it gets heated when it touches on issues that hit close to home for the posters.

For me, I don't see CRA as the "bad guys". Any that I have dealt with have been very reasonable and more than fair. And really at the end of the day they are protecting all of our interests.

[First Lady]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

How many times have you called 311?

3 times for sure. All of those calls were in Sept & Oct. regarding election sign bylaws.

Prior to that, I don't remember the last time I called them.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Hesla

The fact is. You are not doing your duty as proper citizen if you are not trying to pay less in tax than you have to.

I know the above was said in jest. But I figure I will leave you with a quote someone once said to me anyways, just because I think it's a pretty nice quote.

Tax evasion is illegal, but tax avoidance is our right.

[RogerWilco]

If you are living in dangerous or unsanitary conditions, or you feel the landlord is preying upon and mistreating people that have no other living options then report him. Under those conditions I would think you may have a moral obligation to report the landlord. If that isn't the case and if reporting this guy will just end up with a bunch of people with no place to live than I wouldn't reoprt him.

[afc wimbledon]

You have great security in this place, if he tries to screw you just point out to him you will happily rat him out to the feds and give them a full report on how much money you have paid him, how many other guys were living there and how he insisted on cash only and no paper trail.

[Bill Bumface]

First Lady, you have no idea how rental properties work apparently.

The ONLY way you can pull it of to hide from taxes you should be paying is if you're living in there yourself.

Otherwise you go and sell a property that isn't your permanent address and you're going to have to pay capital gains. Guess what happens when you file for capital gains on a property you've owned for 10 years and never filed any taxes for? Audit time. Oh, and suggesting someone just wouldn't file for capital gains is also silly. They find out pretty easily about that.

The biggest thing you're overlooking is one of the very few benefits of a rental property can be the fact they are a tax write off because you are almost always bleeding cash on the stupid effing things. If somehow you are actually cash flow positive its not going to be much. Not nearly enough to justify the risk of not paying tax on it.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by First Lady

3 times for sure. All of those calls were in Sept & Oct. regarding election sign bylaws.

Prior to that, I don't remember the last time I called them.

So, at least 4 times. Maybe more.

[Burninator]

Perhaps this guy can help you.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

First Lady, you have no idea how rental properties work apparently.

The ONLY way you can pull it of to hide from taxes you should be paying is if you're living in there yourself.

Otherwise you go and sell a property that isn't your permanent address and you're going to have to pay capital gains. Guess what happens when you file for capital gains on a property you've owned for 10 years and never filed any taxes for? Audit time. Oh, and suggesting someone just wouldn't file for capital gains is also silly. They find out pretty easily about that.

The biggest thing you're overlooking is one of the very few benefits of a rental property can be the fact they are a tax write off because you are almost always bleeding cash on the stupid effing things. If somehow you are actually cash flow positive its not going to be much. Not nearly enough to justify the risk of not paying tax on it.

Exactly.


FL, go ahead and interpret my post however you want.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Mr.LOL

For the past year (besides spring break up) I have been renting a room in a oilfield town, paying by the month. There was never any security deposit or contract signed. The landlord said he preferred cash and never offered a receipt. I never felt a receipt would be of any benefit to me so I never forced the issue.

Other people I work with have stayed there in the past and it's the same situation. The landlord has mentioned the renovations he has had to make to turn it into a legal rental property and also how he gives all the cash to someone 'who takes care of it all for him.' I suspect if I start requesting a receipt one day I will come home from work and find all my stuff missing.

I have strong suspicions that this shady character is not paying any tax on the money I give him. what would be the best thing to do to make sure he is not committing tax fraud?

[HPLovecraft]

[FlaminFeva]

Wow First Lady if you are going into politics please inform us so we can steer clear of voting for you. I can just imagine how many 'investigations' (beit CRA, border crossing, CSIS, hell even the FBI and DEA would probably end up being employed by your investigative team) we'd have on our hands eating all our tax dollars up. lol. Wow, just wow.

[mikey_the_redneck]

If there is one thing I can't stand:

[kipperfan]

Originally Posted by FlaminFeva

Wow First Lady if you are going into politics please inform us so we can steer clear of voting for you. I can just imagine how many 'investigations' (beit CRA, border crossing, CSIS, hell even the FBI and DEA would probably end up being employed by your investigative team) we'd have on our hands eating all our tax dollars up. lol. Wow, just wow.

She ran for alderman in this past civic election, and lost.

Jane Morgan's the name, lets all make sure we remember her posts in this thread if we ever see her name on another ballot, god knows I will.

[Locke]

Sorry all, a little late to the party. Yeah, yeah, I know, 'tax thread' wheres Locke....

First of all, the CRA does have a whistle-blowing hotline. Secondly, they almost never take it seriously.

For every honest whistleblower there are 100 people with ulterior motives such as attempting to 'screw' a previous employer or former spouse or whatever.

Further; 'I dont think my landlord Mike Smith is paying taxes on his rental revenue.' Great. Awesome. Yeah, the CRA have the time to dig through the SIN numbers of every Mike Smith to find the ones with rental properties and then....what? Audit them all? Ok, cross reference his address, but its unlikely his rental property is his mailing address.

What if he is indeed not claiming the money at all, they'd miss him entirely because he'd be a 'Mike Smith' with no rental property just like the vast majority of them.

And its unlikely the whistleblower has access to the man's SIN.

Even further still, this is just a hunch, what if the guy is a 100% legit? Or hes legit and his accountant or whatever is a complete scumbag and the one telling him to run his business like this. Could be anything.

So, that being said, give 'er, call the CRA, whatever, odds are that they're onto him anyways or they'll get around to it, but your complaint, or whistelblowing or conscientious citizenry will go completely unnoticed anyways.

People are always so sad when I tell them that the CRA complaint line is useless, 'how can they run their business like that?' Yeah, well, believe it or not, its the citizens' faults for abusing the hotline, not to mention, the auditing process is a bitch, and its expensive for CRA to conduct, so they generally need some pretty solid evidence before they decide to stick their heads up someone's ass, which, is kind of what a full blown audit effectively amounts to.

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Your post has been saved to prove that you were aware of tax fraud and did not report it the proper authorities.

Knock yourself out.

Originally Posted by First Lady

Not reporting is the same as condoning it.

Not at all. Where does it say that the citizen has an onus of responsibility to be aware of and enforce the payment and reporting of the income taxes of others?

Nowhere. Thats what the CRA evasions division is for. And they're good at their jobs. Trust me.

Originally Posted by First Lady

My business sense? I'm a bookkeeper. I would never take a client who wanted me to "cook the books" and if I suspected one of my clients of tax evasion; I would report them in a heartbeat.

I have this funny thing called ethics. Doing the right thing helps me sleep at night.

I wonder how people's reactions would change if the landlord was a local politician.

Ah! You see, thats different, as professionals thats part of our responsibility. But, there is usually concrete proof, and if there isnt, all you can really do is inform the CRA and kick the client out of your office.

No professional should partake in underhanded tax plans so that client's only option would be to either abandon his scam as no one will prepare it for him or find an accountant who will. Everyone has a price.

Originally Posted by First Lady

Well first of all, I'm not referring to property tax. I'm talking about tax on the the rental property revenue (or loss as the case may be.)

Every person is required to file tax returns, I'm sure you are familiar with that.

If a person (or business) owns rental property, that also has to be reported on the appropriate tax return.

You mentioned you have tenants so I'm sure you are then familiar with this form. http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg/t4...tml#P195_12960

If not, I suggest you give Locke a call. IIRC he is an accountant.

Paying cash in and of itself isn't necessary a big deal. The fact there is ZERO paper trail in this case is a HUGE red flag.

Quite right. But thats a red flag to the person in question, not the CRA. Rental businesses have no strict regulations in regards to the preparation of financial statements, only that should they be questioned they be able to provide proof of income and expense, which for this guy could be showing bank deposit slips for cash being deposited.

This guy could only take cash for a ton of reasons, not the least of which being that hes operating a rental business in an 'oilfield town' as per the OP, so hes probably not big on personal cheques that tend to have the consistency of a trampoline. Cash in Hand when dealing with front line Oilworkers is potentially a very sound business policy.

Further, I'm no landlord, but tenancy agreements could be cumbersome if these guys arent there on a full time basis depending on rotation, he could be operating it closer to a motel than an apartment building. Now, I'm just proposing possibilities here, but there is not a lot of evidence that this guy has done anything wrong.

Originally Posted by 4X4

When I call Locke, I'll get him to write off the losses the business takes from the ###### tenants that let their dogs chew the baseboards. Until then, I'll spend my time making sure that the people that didn't qualify for their own mortgages are happy living in one of my suites, while I pay the property taxes and all the maintenance costs associated with a property. And if I ever end up with a little whiner like the d-bag that started this thread, I'll scrawl Revenue Canada's ph# on his eviction notice so that he can rat me out.

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

Where did you get 4x4 saying he won't file his tax return?? He never once said that. Along with every one else in here, I'm glad you aren't my neighbour either.

Originally Posted by 4X4

I did not say that.

4x4's tax paying status isnt in question, he files his taxes and he does them legally. Trust me on this. Hes a client of mine and I prepared those taxes.

Alright, hopefully that clears a few things up.

I'm doing my best 'frinkprof in a transit thread' impression.

[Flames_Gimp]

the govt has their hands in our pockets enough as it is.

[TorqueDog]

Is this guy being a prick to you or something? I mean, why not just move out if you think the place sucks and you don't like living there? Ratting him out to the CRA will accomplish nothing that will result in a net benefit to you or any of the other tenants.

[Tron_fdc]

Well, all I can say is that Volos only takes cash, and if someone attempts to screw them for it I will slap the taste out of their mouth. Repeatedly.