Flames and Canucks in on Rossi?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It was never going to be just picks.


Pick, player, prospect. The Horvat.


It's just going to be less than anyone would expect a player like Rossi to get.

So what would be the Canucks realistic offer?

Garland, 15th pick, B prospect?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

Yeah. He went from around a 73 point pace over 82 games (.88 points per game) to a 37 point pace over 82 games (.45 points per game).

I'd say his scoring being cut in half is a considerable slow down.

Yeah thats alarming.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So what would be the Canucks realistic offer?

Garland, 15th pick, B prospect?

The deal that was floating by a Minnesota blog is 15th, Bluger and Elias Dettersson.

All I've heard is the 1st and a young defensive player are for sure part of the deal.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

It was never going to be just picks.


Pick, player, prospect. The Horvat.


It's just going to be less than anyone would expect a player like Rossi to get.

Well then we have to get him. Young C with potential that has already played lots of games and only issue to current team is his size (I assume that means reasonable contract demands, too).

If they will take a winger, then let's go. If it is 18 then they give us a 2nd.

18, Popsicle and Stromgren for Rossi and pick 52?

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Yeah thats alarming.

It's worth a pause, but the slowdown could also be that other teams didn't have to focus so much on Kaprizov so they were able to put their top shut down players on Rossi.


From this, it looks like he played a fair amount of the first half of the season with Kaprizov, but even the 15 games or so before Kap was injured, Rossi spent more time with Boldy.

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/marco-rossi

And this more detailed breakdown shows that he was probably as effective with Boldy/Zuc over Kaprizov/Zuc, despite the end of year slowdown:

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...&situation=ALL

This is where the pro scouts earn their dough.

[dissentowner]

I don't want Rossi regardless. I am not convinced we have seen the ceiling of Frost yet. He was misused by Torts and he didn't have enough time here to build chemistry or get used to the system. I still see him as a capable 2nd line C who can flirt with 70 points given his skill set. If you can get him on a long term deal around 6M AAV I think that will end up being a steal.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't want Rossi regardless. I am not convinced we have seen the ceiling of Frost yet. He was misused by Torts and he didn't have enough time here to build chemistry or get used to the system. I still see him as a capable 2nd line C who can flirt with 70 points given his skill set. If you can get him on a long term deal around 6M AAV I think that will end up being a steal.

Wow, 70? That's a bit optimistic IMO. I can definitely see 55 points, and Frost tightening things up defensively. Which would be a huge improvement in my book. That said, If the Flames manage to get a better puck carrier than Frost for PP1 I could see him being used on PP2, and only putting up 40.

I have some questions regarding Rossi myself, mainly because of the Kaprizov boost. This year Eriksson Ek was injured for a good portion of the season, so Rossi got a lot more time with Kaprizov. That said he produced similar results, but worse analytics playing with Zuccarello and Boldy:
Zuccarello - Rossi - Boldy

293mins(22.6% toi), 18GF, 12GA, +6, 48.5%xG, 48.0%CF

Zuccarello - Rossi - Kaprizov

286mins(22.0% toi), 17GF, 12GA, +5, 53.0%xG, 51.1%CF

---Playoffs(4th line) are a bit of a concern as well
Trenin-Rossi-Brazeau

29mins(45.9% toi), 2GF, 1GA, +1, 22.7%xG, 34.6%CF

[dissentowner]

He almost got 50 in Philly with 2nd line PP time and 3rd line minutes. He has a really high end skill set, he just needs to be used as a top 6 forward with 1st unit PP minutes over a full season to show it.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

He almost got 50 in Philly with 2nd line PP time and 3rd line minutes. He has a really high end skill set, he just needs to be used as a top 6 forward with 1st unit PP minutes over a full season to show it.

He got 46 . Not really “almost 50”

70 is a very long way from 46

To put it in perspective Kadri has eclipsed 70 points twice in his career and is a vastly superior player

No one got 70 points on this team last year

Frost had 12!!!! Points in the 32 games he was here

If he can get 50 points that’s a huge win especially with the style this team plays

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't want Rossi regardless. I am not convinced we have seen the ceiling of Frost yet. He was misused by Torts and he didn't have enough time here to build chemistry or get used to the system. I still see him as a capable 2nd line C who can flirt with 70 points given his skill set. If you can get him on a long term deal around 6M AAV I think that will end up being a steal.

If the asking price is as low as claimed, getting a centre in Conroy's preferred age bracket makes sense.

Rossi is probably better than who we'll get at 18 (def better than who we will get at 32), Popsicle and a prospect.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

If the asking price is as low as claimed, getting a centre in Conroy's preferred age bracket makes sense.

Rossi is probably better than who we'll get at 18 (def better than who we will get at 32), Popsicle and a prospect.

Acquiring Rossi goes against the trend towards building a bigger team that’s hard to play against. We’ve talked about how the drafting strategy of picking bigger skilled players. Rossi is skilled. Big he is not.

We talk about the age range that we are looking for. But believe we are also looking for bigger players as well. Rossi would be our smallest centerman. I believe conroy has a plan and will stick to it. Easy to get caught up in the hype of a player like Rossi being available, but doesn’t fit the profile of the type of player we are looking for (apart from being a young C).

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

He got 46 . Not really “almost 50”

70 is a very long way from 46

To put it in perspective Kadri has eclipsed 70 points twice in his career and is a vastly superior player

No one got 70 points on this team last year

Frost had 12!!!! Points in the 32 games he was here

If he can get 50 points that’s a huge win especially with the style this team plays

He played at a 47 pt pace for 2 full seasons, so yeah, pretty close to being a 50 pt guy. And as Dis said, his utilization was more of a 3rd liner.

I don't see 70 pts, unless he elevates to the next level (always possible), but I certainly think he has a chance to put up 50 pts this year.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I like Frost and think he's got potential but by no means should his presence be blocking the Flames from acquiring better players.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by blankall

To me Rossi has the upside of at least a top 5-10 overall pick. I don't understand the logic in people wanting to sell the farm to move up and grab a top 10 pick this year, when a slightly more developed version like Rossi may be available for less.

Strongly disagree.

Rossi is 5'9" and will cost $7-8M. When not playing with Kaprisov, he was basically a 40 pt guy.

Huge risk to be throwing big assets out for him - would MUCH rather keep the assets and be patient.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I like Frost and think he's got potential but by no means should his presence be blocking the Flames from acquiring better players.

Agreed. But specifically to this conversation, is Rossi significantly better than Frost? Other than 40-50 games with Kaprisov, Rossi hasn't put up better numbers.

If we can use Frost as part of a package to get a better player - great! But Frost + 1st for Rossi? Wrong direction, IMO.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Strongly disagree.

Rossi is 5'9" and will cost $7-8M. When not playing with Kaprisov, he was basically a 40 pt guy.

Huge risk to be throwing big assets out for him - would MUCH rather keep the assets and be patient.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Agreed. But specifically to this conversation, is Rossi significantly better than Frost? Other than 40-50 games with Kaprisov, Rossi hasn't put up better numbers.

If we can use Frost as part of a package to get a better player - great! But Frost + 1st for Rossi? Wrong direction, IMO.

Rossi put up better numbers away from Kaprisov than with him. No need for storytelling.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Rossi put up better numbers away from Kaprisov than with him. No need for storytelling.

Was going by these...

Originally Posted by YyjFlames

I’m definitely on board with Rossi, but his scoring fell off considerably when Kaprizov got injured (Jan 26).

https://www.espn.com/nhl/player/game...91/marco-rossi

I like his game and think he’s talented enough to be good in Calgary but the risk is there that he needs high end skill to succeed, which is why the Flames shouldn’t push too much in for him.

Originally Posted by Knut

So.. 14 points in last 31 games. Slowed down in the second half considerably.

His production fell off a cliff. And interestingly, it was almost identical to Frost's numbers in Calgary (12 pts in 32 games)

[Badgers Nose]

Acquiring him would make us a team with three #2 centres and one #3. Roll the lines and give people minutes, special teams time and match ups depending on performance. Hopefully by the time Backs retires in 2-3 years we get our #1 6'5" centre. At that time we'll be strong down the middle.

I think the size thing is over stated. Rossi doesn't play small.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Wow, 70? That's a bit optimistic IMO. I can definitely see 55 points, and Frost tightening things up defensively. Which would be a huge improvement in my book. That said, If the Flames manage to get a better puck carrier than Frost for PP1 I could see him being used on PP2, and only putting up 40.

I have some questions regarding Rossi myself, mainly because of the Kaprizov boost. This year Eriksson Ek was injured for a good portion of the season, so Rossi got a lot more time with Kaprizov. That said he produced similar results, but worse analytics playing with Zuccarello and Boldy:
Zuccarello - Rossi - Boldy

293mins(22.6% toi), 18GF, 12GA, +6, 48.5%xG, 48.0%CF

Zuccarello - Rossi - Kaprizov

286mins(22.0% toi), 17GF, 12GA, +5, 53.0%xG, 51.1%CF

---Playoffs(4th line) are a bit of a concern as well
Trenin-Rossi-Brazeau

29mins(45.9% toi), 2GF, 1GA, +1, 22.7%xG, 34.6%CF

Rossi and Boldy also had good number away from both Zuc and Kap. Rossi had good numbers away from Boldy, Zuc and Kap.

You could make a case that there was a Kap bump, but the weak link at this point in his career is Zuc.

Playoffs are a small sample size and Tkachuk was a guy that sucked in the playoffs here, goes to Florida and figures it out. He's 23, lots of 23-year-olds struggle in the playoffs.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Acquiring him would make us a team with three #2 centres and one #3. Roll the lines and give people minutes, special teams time and match ups depending on performance. Hopefully by the time Backs retires in 2-3 years we get our #1 6'5" centre. At that time we'll be strong down the middle.

I think the size thing is over stated. Rossi doesn't play small.

It all about the makeup of your team. Rossi type is ok if your #1 C is a Barkov/Kopitar type. Odds are our #1 C is not a McDavid/MacKinnon type as we aren't looking to full tank to get that guy.

Rossi plays with a bit of jam for his size. His skating isn't elite though, but he is 23 still. I could see a 70–80-point guy here and adding him now does allow us to lock him in before the cap goes way up and so do future RFA contracts.