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Old 07-03-2024, 01:27 PM   #141
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This expression never made sense to me. It shouldn't be a good thing to receive a buttload. We know what butts are loaded with, right?
I always assumed it came from people mishearing "boatload"
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Old 07-03-2024, 02:00 PM   #142
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I always assumed it came from people mishearing "boatload"
HA! This makes no sense, boats don't have #### on them.
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Old 07-03-2024, 02:06 PM   #143
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HA! This makes no sense, boats don't have #### on them.
You sure about that? Ever heard of a poop deck?
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Old 07-03-2024, 02:32 PM   #144
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Well, this thread took a turn!
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Old 09-02-2024, 12:51 PM   #145
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I've been reading in several threads that Mantha is a prime pump and dump candidate, and while I don't necessarily disagree with this possibility, there is a huge 'if' around it.

IF Mantha plays with Huberdeau and they click to some degree (maybe Huberdeau gets back to a PPG player) why would we think about trading him if he can help negate that anchor of a contract?

IF Huberdeau bounces back (because of Mantha), we should try to keep Mantha on a shorter term deal (3yrs or less).
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Old 09-02-2024, 01:07 PM   #146
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I've been reading in several threads that Mantha is a prime pump and dump candidate, and while I don't necessarily disagree with this possibility, there is a huge 'if' around it.

IF Mantha plays with Huberdeau and they click to some degree (maybe Huberdeau gets back to a PPG player) why would we think about trading him if he can help negate that anchor of a contract?

IF Huberdeau bounces back (because of Mantha), we should try to keep Mantha on a shorter term deal (3yrs or less).

I would still trade Mantha. Flames will be drafting a lot of good talent up front in the next couple of years, and I would rather make room for those pieces. While I acknowledge that having Huberdeau rebound is a positive, I will also argue that if he is ever going to rebound, it is just as likely - if not more likely - that he will do so alongside better talents than Mantha down the road.
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Old 09-02-2024, 01:07 PM   #147
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This is a player with compete issues. The fear would be we would be he goes back to that same guy once he secures a long term deal.
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Old 09-02-2024, 01:18 PM   #148
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I would still trade Mantha. Flames will be drafting a lot of good talent up front in the next couple of years, and I would rather make room for those pieces. While I acknowledge that having Huberdeau rebound is a positive, I will also argue that if he is ever going to rebound, it is just as likely - if not more likely - that he will do so alongside better talents than Mantha down the road.
I think this is a neat thing to think about, actually. We've seen Huberdeau with better (perhaps arguably) talents before. Whether it be Kadri or Lindholm or whoever. Chemistry is one of those things - when it's there, it's there and when it's not, it doesn't matter what level of talent the players are. I do sort of agree that if the Flames happen to somehow find someone that Huberdeau meshes with so well that Huberdeau is back to being a annual 75+ point player, I'd lean towards doing almost whatever it takes to keep the 2 together. And this is with me believing that yes, players making 10+ million shouldn't be the ones that you cater to in terms of finding linemates and they should be the ones lifting their linemates up, but sometimes things don't work out how they should.

Edit to add that obviously, this is all because at his contract, the Flames absolutely need him to return some sort of value. If Huberdeau was making even 7M, I'm not worried about it. But at 10+, the Flames need him to get back to his former form so they can eventually find him a new team to move him to in exchange for kids better suited to the Flames projected window.

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Old 09-02-2024, 01:20 PM   #149
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Huberdeau becoming a pp specialist would be a huge win with the younger players.
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Old 09-02-2024, 01:31 PM   #150
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I think this is a neat thing to think about, actually. We've seen Huberdeau with better (perhaps arguably) talents before. Whether it be Kadri or Lindholm or whoever. Chemistry is one of those things - when it's there, it's there and when it's not, it doesn't matter what level of talent the players are. I do sort of agree that if the Flames happen to somehow find someone that Huberdeau meshes with so well that Huberdeau is back to being a annual 75+ point player, I'd lean towards doing almost whatever it takes to keep the 2 together. And this is with me believing that yes, players making 10+ million shouldn't be the ones that you cater to in terms of finding linemates and they should be the ones lifting their linemates up, but sometimes things don't work out how they should.

I do agree that chemistry is important, and sometimes, hard to replicate. I think the biggest stumbling block with Huberdeau is that the Flames don't play a run-and-gun system. Florida traded Huberdeau to Calgary, but Florida also drastically changed their system afterwards too. Huberdeau might have experienced a decline in Florida.


However, if Mantha does seem to rejuvenate Huberdeau, how long would you be willing to re-sign Mantha for, and how much? Would there be a guarantee that Mantha himself doesn't revert back to the player who has been often criticized and moved around after Calgary giving him his payday? That's going to be a risk there. Will Huberdeau's resurgence suffer after that?



I think there are just too many moving parts to account for. I think the best thing to do is really stop focusing on Huberdeau, and instead shift the focus to the future. Huberdeau will find his place on this team eventually with the right players. Zary and Pospisil are both young. Sharangovich is signed to 5 years after this one. Coronato and Pelletier are likely (IMO anyway) to make it. Honzek is another. Suniev. Plus other prospects that may make it that are already drafted. Then you add-in the ones that aren't drafted, but will probably end up as high draft picks i the next 2 seasons. I am not sure that Mantha will be worth the roster spot, especially when you consider how he has been criticized in the past for his lack of consistency and work ethic, so he won't fill the 'set the expectations with hard work' angle that you want a vet to do.


I would go 1 year deals on Mantha - maybe squeeze a two year deal. However, he doens't take it if he has a good season - some GM will give him more term out there. To me, the risk that he returns back to his previous level would out-weigh the upside. It would feel like a gamble still to me - a better gamble than this upcoming season will be to be fair, but also a riskier one considering the term and dollar amounts.



I find Canadian teams shoot themselves in the foot too often by giving older players too much money and term during a rebuild, or by being impatient and trying to get out of a rebuild too quickly. I hope the Flames just keep their future contracts as short as possible until they start re-signing their next core players to longer term deals. I would run with 1-2 year deals max, unless the player is young.
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Old 09-02-2024, 04:04 PM   #151
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I’m one of the few who actually likes Mantha, at least when he’s on. In a perfect world, Huska finds a way to keep him near the top of his game, and he gels with Huberdeau in some way, but either scenario is sadly a longshot. If he does well, I like the idea of keeping him, as we could use some size and power in the top-9- not sure we’ll find that player in Mantha, unfortunately.
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Old 09-02-2024, 04:18 PM   #152
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I do agree that chemistry is important, and sometimes, hard to replicate. I think the biggest stumbling block with Huberdeau is that the Flames don't play a run-and-gun system. Florida traded Huberdeau to Calgary, but Florida also drastically changed their system afterwards too. Huberdeau might have experienced a decline in Florida.
Chemistry is of course a big part of it, at least for some players. Huberdeau was given opportunities in Calgary with players that are better than the guys he usually lined up with in Florida, but couldn't seem to get anything going. In Florida, he also didn't do well playing with Barkov, who was their best forward.

It certainly helped that Florida was deep in talented forwards though. They could match lines with players like Barkov, Verhaege, and Reinhart against other teams top defense, then save the Huberdeau line easier deployments. He also feasted on a powerplay with talent most teams can't match.

On the Flames, no matter where Huberdeau plays, it will be the focus and is unfortunately not that hard to shut down.
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Old 09-02-2024, 04:52 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by moncton golden flames View Post
IF Mantha plays with Huberdeau and they click to some degree (maybe Huberdeau gets back to a PPG player) why would we think about trading him if he can help negate that anchor of a contract?

IF Huberdeau bounces back (because of Mantha), we should try to keep Mantha on a shorter term deal (3yrs or less).
Let me ask you a few questions in this scenario:
1. Will the Flames be a playoff team/contender with a PPG Huberdeau?
Personally, I don't think so, not with our holes at C, on D, and in G
2. Would the Flames trade Hubby if he plays at a PPG pace next season?
I think they would jump on the opportunity of a clean slate
3. Do you want Mantha to take a spot away from a prospect in the top 9?
I definitely don't, unless we trade both Coleman, and Sharangovich.
That's why I would still trade Mantha, even if he clicks with Hubby.
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Old 09-02-2024, 04:59 PM   #154
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Where do the Flames even put Mantha?

Kuzmenko-Kadri-Sharangovich
Zary-Backlund-Coleman
Huberdeau-Pospisil-Mantha
Pelletier/Duehr-Rooney-Lomberg/Duehr

He's not good enough defensively to be on Backlund's line, putting him with Kadri and Kuzmenko is the makings of a very defensively leaky line, and Sharangovich shouldn't be slotted at center until Zary and Pospisil get a good look at that spot.
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Old 09-02-2024, 05:05 PM   #155
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Chemistry is of course a big part of it, at least for some players. Huberdeau was given opportunities in Calgary with players that are better than the guys he usually lined up with in Florida, but couldn't seem to get anything going. In Florida, he also didn't do well playing with Barkov, who was their best forward.

It certainly helped that Florida was deep in talented forwards though. They could match lines with players like Barkov, Verhaege, and Reinhart against other teams top defense, then save the Huberdeau line easier deployments. He also feasted on a powerplay with talent most teams can't match.

On the Flames, no matter where Huberdeau plays, it will be the focus and is unfortunately not that hard to shut down.
Reminds me of Crosby. He just clicks so much better with grinder type players it seems. Kunitz and Dupuis sounds like the making of a 3rd line. Rust.
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Old 09-02-2024, 05:49 PM   #156
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If Mantha turns Huberdeau back into a ppg player, the best answer is to trade Mantha at the Deadline, then re-sign him in the off-season. You're welcome.



In all seriousness, we don't know what Mantha wants, he may have no desire to play longterm here.
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Old 09-02-2024, 05:52 PM   #157
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0 risk. If he is terrible and doesn’t work out we are a worse team with a better pick. If he is good he can be flipped at the deadline for a second or a third. These veteran bodies on 1 yr deals are a gold mine for a rebuilding team.
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Old 09-02-2024, 08:25 PM   #158
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0 risk. If he is terrible and doesn’t work out we are a worse team with a better pick. If he is good he can be flipped at the deadline for a second or a third. These veteran bodies on 1 yr deals are a gold mine for a rebuilding team.
And might give us some entertainment
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Old 09-02-2024, 09:12 PM   #159
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Mantha vs Godzilla.
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Old 09-02-2024, 09:18 PM   #160
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I've been reading in several threads that Mantha is a prime pump and dump candidate, and while I don't necessarily disagree with this possibility, there is a huge 'if' around it.

IF Mantha plays with Huberdeau and they click to some degree (maybe Huberdeau gets back to a PPG player) why would we think about trading him if he can help negate that anchor of a contract?

IF Huberdeau bounces back (because of Mantha), we should try to keep Mantha on a shorter term deal (3yrs or less).
If some team wants to give us a pick for paying $2.2M, let them have at it. Just keep rolling the dice to find the next six Manthas as time goes on and this contract can mercifully end. It is a pretty good loss mitigation strategy.
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