[Signing] Canucks sign Hamonic (1 year, $1.25 million, NMC)

[TheIronMaiden]

I don't understand why people are trying to villainize Hamonic of all people. You'd be hard pressed to find a nicer human.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by foreverflamefan

you should be ashamed for posting that.

[false and potentially dangerous misinformation]

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I don't understand why people are trying to villainize Hamonic of all people. You'd be hard pressed to find a nicer human.

Sad losers with nothing else going for them?

Guy made a decision 6 months ago and then made a different decision in different context. I'm pretty sure most normally functioning human beings are able to acquire more information and make a different decision based off of it. That's why we don't all make the same decisions we would have made as 5 year olds.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

(bunch of random goofy garbage and then this...) In the 1930s, masks were studied as they were mandated in some jurisdiction during the 1918 Spanish Flu outbreak and they found no difference in transmission rates between areas with mask mandates and those without.... so masks don't work, they simple don't, they just keep this pandemic if our face (literally) and they create a panic and scare.

No you're right. Science and technology is the same as it was in 1918. You know, before the invention of synthetic fabrics, computers, insulin, penicillin, and about a billion others things. And even then, the study you're talking about found "masks varied greatly in the extent to which they filtered bacteria. But when used properly, some masks were considered to offer protection from infection."

But sure, let's base everything off of 1918. Nothing has changed since then.

Go read a book.

[CsInMyBlood]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Well yes, but at this point they are likely equivalent players if not Hamonic being a better player.

Oh yeah? Cant wait to hear your assessments at the 20 game mark when you've actually watched a good chunk of Hamonic.

I watched a little of the Canucks game last night and saw him doing his Hamonic things. Back in, back in, take a knee to try and block a shot as the Oiler passes. Get walked a couple of times. I see he played 20 mins last night. Hahaha. You're gonna love it.

Best part is hes playing for next years contract so he is going to continually take tunnel vision shots like we saw him do here in his last year. Bad pinches, offense killer. Selfish.

I'm just happy hes a Canuck. It's perfect. Again, looking forward to Canucks fans reports for good ol Travis at the 20 game mark.

[blender]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

...How do you possibly defend his decision within the bounds of rationality? You can't. You just can't.

Human beings are not rational actors. I suggest Dostoyevsky's "Notes From The Underground" as a primer. It's PHIL 101, but explains a lot of what goes on around us every day.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

In the 1930s, masks were studied as they were mandated in some jurisdiction during the 1918 Spanish Flu outbreak and they found no difference in transmission rates between areas with mask mandates and those without.... so masks don't work, they simple don't, they just keep this pandemic if our face (literally) and they create a panic and scare.

If you honestly believe that masks "don't work", i'm curious to know what you think they are supposed to do?

Put a mask on, spit. Now tell me where your spit went.

That's it, that's the point of masks.

Unfortunately people are too dumb to wash their hands, while wearing a mask, and think that masks do everything.

[Blaster86]

I wish Jack would leave again....

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I wish Jack would leave again....

New here, but I am a little surprised that spreading false information that may cause people to die in a pandemic (masks only keep the pandemic in our face and don't work) is not a bannable offense for this community.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Mull

New here, but I am a little surprised that spreading false information that may cause people to die in a pandemic (masks only keep the pandemic in our face and don't work) is not a bannable offense for this community.

Hey, I don't make the rules. I just try and find new and unique ways to break them without getting banned.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But isn't that also part of the argument that Hamonic was being selfish?

He chose not to play when he would still be paid, and chose to play when he had to in order to be paid.

He was selfish. He let his teammates, ownership, and the fans down.

However - He is entirely within his rights as an employee and human to be selfish.

I have no issue with him opting out- It was within his player negotiated right, but I look at is as a guy who conveniently decided not to play for a team that wasn't resigning him and he didn't care about anymore while still getting paid.

And to me that's selfish and I will not respect his decision

Respect =/= Not Allowed to do it

He treated his employer in exactly the same way his employer was happy to treat him and all the other employees, they both did exactly what they thought they needed to do with no real thought to the other parties needs, as the employer is inherently in control of that relationship you can hardly call the employees actions selfish

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

[false and potentially dangerous misinformation]

Next time you have surgery be sure to tell your surgeon you arent a believer in masks and he and your dentist shouldnt be wearing them

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

No you're right. Science and technology is the same as it was in 1918. You know, before the invention of synthetic fabrics, computers, insulin, penicillin, and about a billion others things. And even then, the study you're talking about found "masks varied greatly in the extent to which they filtered bacteria. But when used properly, some masks were considered to offer protection from infection."

But sure, let's base everything off of 1918. Nothing has changed since then.

Go read a book.

Wow.... your response - well I won't go there.



I've read so many studies on masks (current ones too).... I'm sorry, but most masks people wear today are no better then the masks of the 1920s. Plus.... those little blue surgical masks that people wear, they were never meant for this purpose, their main purpose was to prevent fluid transfer for someone like your dentist when they were working on you, or a doctor examining a patient - to catch spit when they talked or just accidental discharges. Viruses are very small - 0.02 to 0.25 microns and mostly go right through the masks.... masks also have 5 major openings, 2 around the nose on the upper cheeks, 2 on the sides of the face, and one down the neck.... where the virus travels unimpeded to the outside world, just sneeze with a mask on and everyone that just thinks logically about this can see where these things don't work as prescribed. Most honest studies of these simple surgical masks (not talking about N95 Respirator Mask or better - but the ones that over 99% of general population wear) show very little benefit to both the user or people they come in contact with. Most do stop a few cases, but it's statistically insignificantly and mostly within the margins of error - but I would agree, there is a very small benefit.



I said "honest studies" - I think it very weird, because on the CDC website (in April) they had an article about 9 studies that showed masks had little effect on the flu and/or common cold (each of these studies occurred before Covid19) - I read this article and also reviewed what I could find on the 9 studies (some were behind paywalls, but you could read the synopsis)... that article is no longer there and Google would no longer bring up that article or any of the 9 studies - weird suppression - so I use DuckDuckGo to query now because I want to see real data and studies regardless of their outcomes, a person looking for the truth must look at studies that disagree with their hypothesis and determine why. One of the nine studies, a Japanese study on Doctor, Nurses, and other health professions who wore masks for work, found that there was absolutely no difference in transmissions rates between the control group (also containing Doctor and health professions that didn't wear masks) and those that wore masks all the time (the study asked them to wear them all the time during waking hours). Now.... this study was just too small to show any real marginal differences when you compare millions of people, and I'm sure masks do have a marginalized benefit as other studies have shown, but again, no study has shown any real significant benefit - and this is going to come out in our post analysis some time in the future when we can all think clearly about this and take any politics out of it and concentrate on the pure science of it.


Science is not about consensus - it only takes one person with the right data and analysis to prove a theory wrong - regardless of how many scientist believed it before or proved it correct before. Everyone thought the earth was flat.... they had proof, just look at me standing here was often proof enough - but it took only one person or scientist to prove everyone wrong. With masks.... it's not so much about whether or not they work, it's more a matter of degree - social distancing actually works to a far better degree than masks ever or will ever do. But if you prevent transmission of COVID with social distancing and get let say 90% drop in transmission rates.... and with adding masks you get that figure to grow to 91%.... how effective are the masks?



Anyhow... time will tell and hopefully we all learn for next time.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Why should he.... I guess pointing out the truth about Covid and how they scared the population to do absolutely horrendous things to our way of life, freedom, and the economy is not allowed. I don't question Hamonic's decision, but our response to this pandemic was/is all WRONG - whether you agree now with my statement or not, that doesn't matter, I think history will prove it correct just like history before has on things like mask mandates in LA for example - just 100 years earlier during the Spanish Flu pandemic. They (masks) didn't work then and they don't work now (only marginally having any effect). I looked statistically at the North American death rates for 2019 and compared those numbers to the same months that I had for 2020... during a pandemic, you would expect to see an increase (excluding accidents, suicides, and murders) to the same earlier time frame - yet you DON'T - it's flat.... then I saw a detailed peer reviewed studied on this exact same topic, of course it has since been removed by I think Stanford if I remember correctly (not for being wrong btw - but for be politically incorrect at this time), which takes it further and compares deaths by age category - and even when comparing the elderly age categories (those most effected by Covid) you don't see an increase at all. All you see is a shifting of deaths from other factors like cancer and heart disease to Covid, in the same magnitude.


Bottom line is this.... the Covid deaths are overblown and in the future, will be sadly swamped by deaths caused by our so called reaction (cure) to this pandemic. Like it our not, this is a clear example where the cure is far worse then the disease itself, and that makes me very sad as we will see deaths from suicide and substance abuse far outpace even the overblown death rates of Covid itself. Will this fact be suppressed - I think it may.


As they knew at the start of this pandemic (judging by their own statements)... and as history indeed shows with other pandemics, you can't stop a pandemic once it's out in the greater community unless you somehow get people immune (herd immunity) to it, you can only delay people from getting it (flatten the curve).... but with these lock downs - all we did was just push it from more people getting it in the spring to more people getting it now - they just shifted the outbreak, and they always knew that was going to happen - statistically again, the number of people getting it was always going to remain the same unless we had a way of making people immune (vaccine) - it was just a matter of timing. The irony in all this is with this disease - people outside rarely transmit it (I'd say statistically zero), people needed to be in confined space with each other to transmit it (in buses, subways, or in homes for example)... and that's exactly what the lock down measures did (luckily it was mostly within families - but nursing homes and other institutions weren't). Quebec has a 8pm curfew right now.... so they are confining people together, which makes little sense, is the virus somehow more transmittable after 8pm then it is before - just think logically about this and you can see how absurd we've all been.


Anyhow... not to harp.... but I really look forward to our post review on all this nonsense, and I hope we learn from it. In the 1930s, masks were studied as they were mandated in some jurisdiction during the 1918 Spanish Flu outbreak and they found no difference in transmission rates between areas with mask mandates and those without.... so masks don't work, they simple don't, they just keep this pandemic if our face (literally) and they create a panic and scare.

Your post is filled with misinformation.



Masks are proven to work, and during the Spanish Influenza, many people wore masks made out of cheesecloth - hardly stopping anything of note.


Also, the death rate from covid is low - we are relatively lucky in this regard. However, the more it spreads, and the more hospitals become overburdened, the higher the death rate. Why? Because medications and other treatments become more scarce. Doctors end up making 'tougher choices', and people who might survive if given treatments are passed over for others who will have higher chances for success. This leads to higher death rates.


On top of this, this virus SEEMS to be more deadly when someone is exposed to higher counts of the virus. Doctors and other health care experts treating patients - including respiratory experts - end up dying. So as people are coming in to get treatments, they are then having to be treated by other doctors who aren't experts in this field, so you would expect death rates to increase. These are some of the reasons why you see higher death rates in some countries over others.



There is also an issue with mutations - there are already a couple mutations (that we know of) that are more contagious, but not as deadly. This is also rather dangerous. Why? There could very well be a mutation that will be more dangerous. It is natural for viruses to mutate over time. Some mutations are rather benign and can be no more worse or contagious than before, or even mutate into something less serious. However, mutations can very well develop into a much higher 'killer', and one only has to look at a couple of other coronaviruses to see how deadly this family of viruses CAN be.



For instance, did you know that HIV has a few variants? I am not up-to-date on HIV treatments, but there are mutations that will quickly develop into full-blown AIDS, and others that will take years and years. (I do not know if treatments have improved the quicker and much more deadly strain).


Why does this matter? Think about it this way - if you have a virus and it mutates inside of you, making it more deadly, but you live in a rural area and don't come into contact with anyone, the disease dies with you (assuming the people that find and take care of your body take precautions). However, in a city, you will be in contact with many other people, and the disease will spread regardless of how deadly it is.



You also have to add the chances of people passing on these diseases to other animals. This increases the mutation risk as well. 50 million mink have been killed in Europe over this very risk - people passed it onto the mink, and the mink in turn passed it back into humans.


So far through MOST of North America, the death rates due to COVID have remained flat because the hospitals haven't collapsed, and also as scientists and doctors are learning about this disease, better treatment options are being discovered as well. One only needs to look at Italy to see the fluctuations in the death rate.



Also, I cared for my elderly father for a number of years. The 'simple flu' is a killer to the elderly. Without looking, I am betting that Influenza infections are way down this year thanks to these public health measures. This may be flattening the death rate in the elderly (if your information is actually accurate - I have not looked up year-to-year death rates in certain groups myself, and it does matter where you get your information). My father passed away last year right before the outbreak happened, but he took a giant step down in his health and abilities when he caught the flu. Went from being a completely self-sufficient man who went for long walks every day, to being hospitalized for 4 months and living another 10 years under full-time care and very fragile. That's the Flu, and coronavirus is worse.


This is also a brand-new disease. We don't know the full extent of the long-term health issues this disease will bring, but more and more studies are shedding light on this very topic, and the news is not good at all.



I get it.. you don't want to believe that the world is changed, and you want to continue living as if nothing is different. It isn't easy to socially isolate, and the economic hardships are difficult to stomach too. There is an unquestionable cost of human life to these shutdowns as well which shouldn't (and isn't!!) ignored.


However, if everyone just did their damn part, there would not be a need for lockdowns. Just because the measures are working and the hospitals (for the most part) haven't been devastated, does not mean this is overblown fear. We all saw the pictures coming out of Italy at the time, and we started to see it in New York as well. Please explain to me why they had to bring in refrigerated trucks if there were no more deaths than normal? Explain to me why Brazil is doing mass burials?



The dangerous of coronavirus is very real, and the death rates do change when infection rates increase. Flattening the curve is incredibly important.



Here is something to think about...


Contrast and compare the 'free countries of the world' with one of only 4 communist countries left in the world - Vietnam.


Vietnam did the contact tracing and shutdowns, people there are used to wearing masks and it isn't a politicized issue like it is here. People were forced into isolation.



Now look at the difference. We are still socially isolated here, schools are regularly shut down, there are people dying every single day of covid... and in Vietnam, they are walking around enjoying all their freedoms like going to restaurants, coffee shops, having the children go to schools, etc., etc. Only difference is that the border is closed to prevent any community transmission.



It is so ironic to me that a communist country who made the effort to get in front of this (and that shares an actual border with China which was the epicentre of this outbreak) has its population enjoying all this freedom, while the 'free people' of the world - who refuse to be told what to do like wearing masks and trying to be more responsible - have less freedoms now. If only we all took this virus seriously, maybe we could all be enjoying the freedoms that a communist country has.


You don't need an authoritarian government in place to control the virus. There are examples of countries who have managed to get this under control and have kept it under control, and they are maintaining their freedoms (except travel restrictions of course - since many countries are not controlling this). People bought-in to making a sacrifice in those countries and being socially responsible.


/first and only rant about covid on these forums by me.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by JackIsBack

Wow.... your response - well I won't go there.



I've read so many studies on masks (current ones too).... I'm sorry, but most masks people wear today are no better then the masks of the 1920s. Plus.... those little blue surgical masks that people wear, they were never meant for this purpose, their main purpose was to prevent fluid transfer for someone like your dentist when they were working on you, or a doctor examining a patient - to catch spit when they talked or just accidental discharges. Viruses are very small - 0.02 to 0.25 microns and mostly go right through the masks.... masks also have 5 major openings, 2 around the nose on the upper cheeks, 2 on the sides of the face, and one down the neck.... where the virus travels unimpeded to the outside world, just sneeze with a mask on and everyone that just thinks logically about this can see where these things don't work as prescribed. Most honest studies of these simple surgical masks (not talking about N95 Respirator Mask or better - but the ones that over 99% of general population wear) show very little benefit to both the user or people they come in contact with. Most do stop a few cases, but it's statistically insignificantly and mostly within the margins of error - but I would agree, there is a very small benefit.



I said "honest studies" - I think it very weird, because on the CDC website (in April) they had an article about 9 studies that showed masks had little effect on the flu and/or common cold (each of these studies occurred before Covid19) - I read this article and also reviewed what I could find on the 9 studies (some were behind paywalls, but you could read the synopsis)... that article is no longer there and Google would no longer bring up that article or any of the 9 studies - weird suppression - so I use DuckDuckGo to query now because I want to see real data and studies regardless of their outcomes, a person looking for the truth must look at studies that disagree with their hypothesis and determine why. One of the nine studies, a Japanese study on Doctor, Nurses, and other health professions who wore masks for work, found that there was absolutely no difference in transmissions rates between the control group (also containing Doctor and health professions that didn't wear masks) and those that wore masks all the time (the study asked them to wear them all the time during waking hours). Now.... this study was just too small to show any real marginal differences when you compare millions of people, and I'm sure masks do have a marginalized benefit as other studies have shown, but again, no study has shown any real significant benefit - and this is going to come out in our post analysis some time in the future when we can all think clearly about this and take any politics out of it and concentrate on the pure science of it.


Science is not about consensus - it only takes one person with the right data and analysis to prove a theory wrong - regardless of how many scientist believed it before or proved it correct before. Everyone thought the earth was flat.... they had proof, just look at me standing here was often proof enough - but it took only one person or scientist to prove everyone wrong. With masks.... it's not so much about whether or not they work, it's more a matter of degree - social distancing actually works to a far better degree than masks ever or will ever do. But if you prevent transmission of COVID with social distancing and get let say 90% drop in transmission rates.... and with adding masks you get that figure to grow to 91%.... how effective are the masks?



Anyhow... time will tell and hopefully we all learn for next time.

I'm going to stop you right there champ.

The fact that you said the bolded means that you literally don't understand a single thing about how science works and I am therefore rendering the rest of your rant moot.

There are countless studies on masks showing they are effective. Hell, just this week my in-laws had a scare in their office. Someone they just hired the prior week tested positive over the weekend. This person had contact with them and about 4 other individuals in close contact for long periods of time. However, after doing a round of testing on everyone in office, nobody contracted the virus from this person who was positive and likely infectious all week. You want to know why? They were all wearing "1918" masks at all times.

You're just another in the long line of "I know more than all the epidemiologists combined" folk. I've dealt with you enough for almost the past year, and I'm sick of it. Go back to your hole. The rest of the world is just fine without your input.

[krynski]

Well, this thread took a bit of a turn.

Honestly, I was a bit dissapointed when Hamonic decided to opt-out, but the idea with COVID there was an idea that this would be a short-term effect on society, and it was still quite fathomable. We now have a bit of a better timeline with vaccines, and really, at some point you have to find a way to provide for your family and make a living. At some point, the benefits outweigh the risks for him and he made his choices.

I liked Hamonic as a Flame at times, and there were certainly times it was frustrating. I do hope he regains some of his form as he was as an Islander (from an outside perspective, a much more consistent and impactful player) and wish him the best.

I am glad that he is playing in the NHL, but glad he's not on our team. We have depth at D and the time has come to look at some younger, more maleable talent. That said, all the best to him.

[Galakanokis]

Canucks D did not dominant.

Oilers D was worser.

[JackIsBack]

Originally Posted by krynski

Well, this thread took a bit of a turn.

Yep.... sorry about that.... I will drop it, I was just trying to defend someone's post here that questioned Hamonic's decisions - which ironically, I don't question at all.



I thought he was a hard worker and played with heart when he did play... I don't think he would have changed the playoff outcome, but maybe, you just never know. I think Vancouver got a steal of a deal on him though - I'd certainly sign him in Calgary for that amount and term without even questioning it.

[dustygoon]

So Hamonic signed in Vancouver, eh?

[jessnuts]

Starting to feel like someone here has seen the inside of the capitol building in the last week or so