Time to ban Pitbulls from Calgary

[transplant99]

This article says a lot of the dogs identified as pitbulls are not...which skews numbers dramatically.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/steff...b_8112394.html

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by RichKlit

Your not being honest with yourself, you know there are numerous reasons to have a pet. I’m not going to give you a list of reasons as to why one would want a pet, having read many of your posts you are an intelligent poster and I think you know the reasons for having a pet are obvious. Some things dont need to be debated endlessly.

As far as breed bans go that definitely is a topic of debate.

I don’t know, I get there are some benefits, I get the companionship and those sort of angles, but if you look at t, pet ownership is just one of those weird things.

I dont feel like a breed ban makes sense, it’s just a bandaid. The problem is bad owners. The unfortunate part of the Pitbull situation is that bad owners end up impacting other people a little more than others.

The real problem is the lack of respect for animals. The more dangerous the animal, the more problematic neglect becomes, but we let these “types” of owners go unchecked all the time.

Why is animal neglect ok when it’s only impacting the animals? Why are we blaming the dangerous ones instead of focusing on the bad owners?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Dog's behavior change over time. Are you looking for yearly assessments on pitbulls? Hey if that is the case i'm all for it. Most of the owners are prob poor as dirt and would prob give up their pit then to go through that.

I think a lot more people would be in favour of this as a means to reduce the risks as opposed to an outright ban on a breed.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

I think a lot more people would be in favour of this as a means to reduce the risks as opposed to an outright ban on a breed.

Ok i can go with this. No pitbull ban if
- new owners take a mandatory dog training course with the SPCA
- $2000 fine if your pitbull is not muzzled in public
- $5,000 fine if your pitbull escapes your yard, $10k for 2nd offense, $15k for 3rd offense...
- 1 month in jail if your pitbull bites another animal or person.
- 6 months in jail if your pitbull kills another animal

and BAN future adult pitbulls from entering Canada from the US. That is some mind blowing stupid stuff.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by wretched34

What I don't understand is this:
When a child is raised in a bad home, with abusive and inattentive caregivers, and becomes a bully at school, and picks on other kids, and is physically aggressive, often it's "Oh, well, little Johnny has it pretty tough at home, there's not much we can do".
Later in life, that poor upbringing is often used as a defense when it comes to criminal cases, when that young Bully turned to a life of crime.

Yet, when it's a dog raised by those same abusive, inattentive caregivers, the only logical narrative is the dog is bad and should be destroyed.

Now, I'm not trying to say a humans life is only as valuable as a dogs, or vice versa, my point is that like children, the environment a dog is raised in plays a large roll in the dogs behaviour. In fact, it effects dogs more, as unlike humans, they don't truly have a mind of their own, they are trained, and conditioned to do as they are told by what ever influencing force is around them.

It's pretty clear that the real issue is poor and inexperienced ownership.

All children have similar biology and physical attributes though; at least a random variety within a range.

Dog breeds are completely different, so a bad owner with a pitbull vs a bad owner with a shih tzu have very different results.

If bad parents had a tendency to adopt extra strong, aggressive children with very devastating attacks, then the comparison would be more appropriate.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

All children have similar biology and physical attributes though; at least a random variety within a range.

Dog breeds are completely different, so a bad owner with a pitbull vs a bad owner with a shih tzu have very different results.

For people, but not for the animals. Why do we just address the symptom?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Ok i can go with this. No pitbull ban if
- new owners take a mandatory dog training course with the SPCA
- $2000 fine if your pitbull is not muzzled in public
- $5,000 fine if your pitbull escapes your yard, $10k for 2nd offense, $15k for 3rd offense...
- 1 month in jail if your pitbull bites another animal or person.
- 6 months in jail if your pitbull kills another animal

and BAN future adult pitbulls from entering Canada from the US. That is some mind blowing stupid stuff.

You would have to do this for many breeds though, pits are not exclusive to attacking humans or other animals.

Also it has to be determined what exactly a pitbull is. I know what I identify as one, but the more I read the more its apparent that a whole swack of breeds are lumped into that category which completely skews the attack statistics if those nubers are to be believed.

[flamesfever]

I am not an expert. However, from my experience, a dog's personality often mimics its owner. If the owner is friendly and loving, then the dog is quite often the same. If an owner is mean and abusive, then the dog may be also. Therefore, I agree that a dog's behavior can be a learned thing related to its environment.

However, when it comes to Pitbulls, I feel there may be a deep seated genetic, or hereditary predisposition to act aggressively in certain situations. I think in most cases, the learned behavior can overcome the tendency to be aggressive...yet I don't think this is 100% guaranteed.

If I had babies or small children, the Pitbull would be the last dog I would own.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

Ok i can go with this. No pitbull ban if
- new owners take a mandatory dog training course with the SPCA
- $2000 fine if your pitbull is not muzzled in public
- $5,000 fine if your pitbull escapes your yard, $10k for 2nd offense, $15k for 3rd offense...
- 1 month in jail if your pitbull bites another animal or person.
- 6 months in jail if your pitbull kills another animal

and BAN future adult pitbulls from entering Canada from the US. That is some mind blowing stupid stuff.

I don’t really agree with all of the penalties you’ve suggested for owners but I can’t understand why anyone would import a rescue dog from the states when we have so many sitting in shelters here. If someone wants a dog for companionship then there are already enough available domestically for that purpose.

Importation should be outlawed at the very least until our shelters aren’t full of dogs waiting to be euthanized. The idea that this saves the lives of dogs is a little misleading, for every dog that was imported and saved a local rescue doesn’t get adopted and is put down.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

All children have similar biology and physical attributes though; at least a random variety within a range.

Dog breeds are completely different, so a bad owner with a pitbull vs a bad owner with a shih tzu have very different results.

If bad parents had a tendency to adopt extra strong, aggressive children with very devastating attacks, then the comparison would be more appropriate.

A bad owner of a pitbull versus a bad owner of another big dog, of similar size and weight would likely have very similar results.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

A bad owner of a pitbull versus a bad owner of another big dog, of similar size and weight would likely have very similar results.

That's true, ignoring hereditary factors. For example, if it were a pitbull vs a lab, I believe the pitbull would have a higher risk of being more dangerous.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

For one. He's not my brother(please read!) and 2, I think he has trained over 600 dogs so unless you have some real stats that prove his 35 + years experience is BS I simply can't buy your stats. I'm not sorry to say but I'll take his word over your "science" of dogs twice on Sundays.

Your brother in law, good lord what a strange thing to nit pick.

Cool he's trained over 600 dogs majority of which according to your post are for RCMP and Military type organizations. Which use certain dogs trained for certain things. I wouldn't let a motorcycle mechanic work on my transmission even though he's a mechanic.

Your brother in law made statements that are factually not true and actually go against almost all information out there, he's wrong. It doesn't matter how much you believe him the statements he made are just not correct and clearly show a bias towards certain breeds. There are people that can make compelling arguments for a flat earth but it doesn't change the fact that they're wrong.

It's clear he's used to training certain dogs for certain things and there are definitely breeds that are more trainable for specific uses.

If a trainer comes out and says that certain breeds, that we've seen trained by amateurs (because let's face it 99% of these dogs are fine) and he says they aren't trainable, they're stupid and useless, he's not a good trainer. Case closed. It doesn't mean he isn't good at training police dogs or dogs for a specific purpose but being an all around dog trainer isn't the job for him.

Pitbulls are considered to be very smart, if I ever heard a trainer say anything like that about a breed I certainly wouldn't hire them. If you're trying to train a bulldog to behave like a police dog of course you would think they are untrainable and not so bright. I don't even own a Pitbull, but I've owned 4 English Bulldogs and I've managed to do everything your brother in law has said isn't possible, and I'm no expert.

They aren't my stats please read! It's a study from Florida.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

That's true, ignoring hereditary factors. For example, if it were a pitbull vs a lab, I believe the pitbull would have a higher risk of being more dangerous.

But compare Pitbulls to say rotwielliers, pinchers and shepards. I'm not sure if you'd see much difference in The macho dog Calgary

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

REQUEST:
If you are going to post quotes from articles and graphics from other sites, please provide the link so we can read the rest of it.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yes i might have made all that stuff up!!

https://barkpost.com/pit-bulls-history-of-americas-dog/

What? He clearly said so we can read the rest of it for context, not that he outright doesn't believe you.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by GGG

But compare Pitbulls to say rotwielliers, pinchers and shepards. I'm not sure if you'd see much difference in The macho dog Calgary

If you were going to be attacked by one of those four dogs, which one would you be most afraid of?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

The problem is always the owner.


They're also a problem because they're nigh unstoppable once triggered.

Originally Posted by jayswin

Just figured I'd isolate these two sentences for juxtaposition.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Am I wrong?

Absolutely. Your points aren't invalid if you didn't try to claim an absolute. You said the problem is always the owner then literally right after you admitted that there is specific problem with pitbulls in that they are highly unstoppable once triggered.

[Travis Munroe]

We have a breed that is considered "dangerous". He goes to the dog park at least 5 times a week and has been doing so since he was 7 weeks old. This sort of interaction with other people and dogs has created a mindset where people and dogs are fun. I would also guess that so few attacks take place at dog parks because these dogs are raised socializing with other dogs.

The owners carry so much responsibility on how their dog grows up and in my opinion, it starts when they are a puppy. Do you put all of the shoes away so that the dog can't chew them or do you leave shoes out and teach the dog not to chew them? Teaching it takes more patience but is the proper way. The same goes with having it around people and other dogs. Do you put the dog in the yard when someone comes over because it is the easy way or do you teach the dog as a puppy how to interact with people, how not to jump, how to sit and wait, etc. One is easy and one is hard but when that dog is full grown and has been kept from socializing and senses your stress everytime another person comes around, it is no wonder we see some attacks that we do.

This is general to all dogs but a confused and protective pitbull is going to cause more harm than a confused and protective wiener dog.

The solution... treat is like a license. Mandatory training every 2 years if you want a dog that is going to be over 70 lbs. Bonus credits of some sort if you start that training before it gets to 70 lbs to incentivize proper behavior before it is big enough to do harm.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

If you were going to be attacked by one of those four dogs, which one would you be most afraid of?

Seeing as I was raised with Rottweilers and Shepards, and own 2 "pittbulls", I would be far more afraid of a pissed off 120lb Rottweiler than any of the other breeds, that's after being attacked and nearly killed by a Shepard at age 12.

I don't understand why you'd be more afraid of the dog that's half the size of the other two, unless all you know about them is what the news tells you.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

and you said you love all dogs and especially like small dogs. How would you feel if a pitbull tore apart your dog? Don't forget they killed 37,000 other dogs and cats in 2015.

My uncle just last week had his Pomeranian critically injured by another dog and had to be put down. The owner of the other dog felt terrible and paid for the vet bills which was decent of him but he still should have had better control of his dog. The dog was a Labrador Retriever. Should we ban all Labs? Also, again you are quoting numbers that are totally wrong because multiple breeds of dogs are referred to as Pit Bulls to pad statistics for those opposed to the breed.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

If you were going to be attacked by one of those four dogs, which one would you be most afraid of?

The one with the ####tiest owner.

Probably the Rotty I think. The Pitbulls I don't think can get to my neck or face. So if being attacked I will end up with some serious leg damage but I don't think I will be over powered and taken to the ground like a Shepard or a Rotty could.

But overall I don't think I personally would see any significant difference in risk in those breeds (and this could be my ignorance) in the hands of a bad owner.