Was just thinking that -- it was kind of odd for Han and Leia to name their child after Obi-Wan 'Ben' Kenobi. Han only knew him for a few hours and didn't really like him, and Leia never met him at all. Would be far more likely that Luke would name his kid after Obi-Wan...
Was just thinking that -- it was kind of odd for Han and Leia to name their child after Obi-Wan 'Ben' Kenobi. Han only knew him for a few hours and didn't really like him, and Leia never met him at all. Would be far more likely that Luke would name his kid after Obi-Wan...
I can buy it. Ben was important, and he was important to Luke. Han and Luke were close friends, Leia is Luke's sister. Not too far fetched.
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I liked it a lot. So did my brother. My wife thought it was just OK. Her gripes:
-Kylo Ren wasn't super powerful and a poor villain - My response: "Uh, hello? He was a sith in training, and probably didn't have the best natural talents which made him jealous and angry. He was an imperfect, temperamental brat trying to emulate the greatness of his grandfather. I thought the character was great. Further development to come."
-Rey was able to fight Ren and use Jedi powers with no training?- My reponse: "She might have had some training, we don't know that. If she's Luke's daughter, she inherited strong gifts. She also has more raw potential than Ren. And, as we saw on in her initial scenes, she knew how to fight, and was quite agile."
-Snoke was too large, and looked CGI. I didn't like his design, and I thought there was no CGI in this movie? - My response: "Who cares how big he is? IMO it's interesting. Also, that was a hologram, might not reflect his true size (see Kaos from Skylanders). As for CGI, of course there will be CGI, but it was done tastefully overall. A lot of attention was paid to real sets and costumes."
-Han's death wasn't very dramatic - My response: "IMO, I actually agree somewhat. I didn't feel a lot of sadness when this happened. It was predictable, but aside from a Leia's face and Chewy's rage mode, I would expect more ceremony and mourning for one of the most iconic characters in motion picture history. But time is limited in a fast paced movie such as this."
-It felt like rehash of the originals, with too many plot similarities and homages. - "Yes, but this was done purposely to draw the audience back with familiarity, considering the disaster of the prequels. The next 2 movies will have more originality I suspect. I had no issues with the formula."
My son stated he didn't like this movie as much either. I asked why. His response: "Because Han Solo died "
They both loved Fin's character.
Sometimes I wonder if my wife just takes the opposite opinion of me for the sake of it.
I managed to not read anything about the plot and cast leading into the movie and lost my mind when the main guys from The Raid movies showed up to hassle Han Solo.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drak
I can buy it. Ben was important, and he was important to Luke. Han and Luke were close friends, Leia is Luke's sister. Not too far fetched.
And let's not forget that ANH started with Leia trying to get a message to Ben via R2D2. So Leia already knew and trusted him at a time when Luke only new him as a hermit that lived nearby.
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I loved it. It had the weird position of having both an extremely low bar to clear (be better than the prequels) and a high bar to clear (be as good as the OT) and I felt it did both. It felt like a Star Wars movie. It followed a good movie formula. It was the right mix of practical effects and CGI. They learned from the prequels.
There were some things I didn't like, and some things I am kind of holding judgement for because I think they will be addressed in VIII and IX. I'm not crazy about the latter in a movie like this, but overall things were so much better am I willing to be less nitpicky.
Loved:
The characters. I actually care about them. They have great chemistry, they're likable on their own, already it feels like it did when watching Luke, Han, and Leia during ANH. This was the biggest failing of the prequels and the biggest strength of the OT, so they've set it up for success right off the bat.
X-Wings. My biggest fanboy weakness is that I can be easily distracted with X-Wings being thrown into a movie. I don't need A-Wings or B-Wings, just give me the coolest one and go nuts!
The opening. Quickly get to the point of the story, show us the bad guys being bad, get this going right away and they did that.
Again, the real look of it. You're seeing the original cantina type aliens, original Jabba's Palace type aliens and droids. Real sets. You can see these differences better and effects should enhance these things, not replace them.
Liked:
Kylo. He's not just a rehashed Vader, instead we can see a villain on their own journey. Some might not like the dark force user being all emo, but I thought Driver pulled it off great. This guy being super emotional helps explain why he would have gone to the dark side in the first place. Then him killing his own father putting him over the edge also makes a lot of sense.
The humor. Some found it 'too jokey' but I thought it worked in real well. There was no shortage of jokey stuff in the OT and I feel it was well balanced. A lot of the comedic relief came from good dialogue and interaction or from BB-8 who basically provided the same relief that 3PO and R2 always did.
How they're setting up Rey. Absolutely has to be Luke's daughter (right?!) given the "cave scene" and what is effectively planted images in her head of where he was. Then with the whole 'now it is calling to you' seems to be the most obvious set up.
I don't have an issue with her matching Kylo. We already saw she is good with a bowstaff and can handle herself in hand-to-hand combat so its not like this is going from 0-100. We know that Kylo is hurt and like Vader v. Luke in Empire, he wasn't trying to kill her. But different from Vader v. Luke, Kylo is no Darth Vader so her getting the upper hand isn't out there in terms of belief.
Things scaled well. The battles were bigger, but not "shove so much into the screen we can't keep up" bigger.
Disliked:
Snoke and Phasma. Now Phasma was basically marketing setting up a character for failure because we were given the impression that this was some kind of spec ops (or whatever) badass Stormtrooper but instead it was a character with what, 2 minutes of screen time (maybe) who ostensibly is killed off-screen? What was the point? Snoke to me should have been referred to as only an off-screen entity, similar to the Emperor in ANH because he added another villain that doesn't really have anything to do with this part of the story. Hux and Kylo were enough IMO and then we can finally meet Snoke in the next part.
The Finn v. Stormtrooper lightsabre fight. Didn't need to happen. All it set up was to show how Finn could survive a fight with Kylo which as far as I can tell only happened to set up a misdirection in the trailers. There were other ways to get to the Rey-Ren showdown IMO.
I'm still not sure how I feel about it
Rey learning to use the Force so quickly. This seems like something they'll explain later, which I don't really care for, but I would have liked some indication she could do things without understanding it was, then when learning that Luke and the Jedi and all that were real it clicked. Now with my assumption that she's Luke's daughter and he presumably had the connection with her, then it makes sense that it triggered something. But I don't like how there was no learning experience or realization moment. It just went from 'the force is real' to 'I can use this pretty well' without any step in between.
But yeah, a solid Star Wars movie and a solid movie in general. JJ did good.
Like I said, the film foregoing the catchup with the old cast and just focusing on Rey and Finn's adventure and the build up of the new first order would've made this a classic. Include an elder figure (maybe Luke, maybe another) to teach them the ways of the force, so that stuff like Rey's ultra quick progression is more believable. Include Poe and the resistance later in the movie, but no trench run or giant space weapon battle. The first order are supposed to be remnants of the Empire, so why do they have a weapon ten times as large and twice as powerful? I dunno. I'd prefer that they just had a fleet of star destroyers and were going around trying to take over and gain power, while destroying all remaining force users. It could've had a way more intimate and adventurous feel to it, which would've made it far superior to the super large scope rehash/fan nod that they went for in the latter half of the film.
Last edited by ScorchyScorch; 12-19-2015 at 12:06 PM.
I think the start of Episode 8 will need to explain how all of the villains get away.
Count me in the group that thinks Phasma was overrated and didn't really bring much to the film other than a strange sort of eye candy, the silver storm trooper suit. She was easily captured and made to turn off the shield, but I guess she is still a storm trooper, so that kind of makes sense.
I like how they were able to tell us that the troopers are no longer clones, but then there is a threat to go back to using clones. Makes you think that they still must be making clones, but just not using them at this time.
I need some more time to collect my thoughts on the movie after seeing it last night, but in short, the movie was amazing and excellent. You'll never please everyone all at once, and Abrams did a superb job of paying homage to the old and setting up the new.
There are a couple of things that I don't totally agree with, but even the original trilogy had things that bugged me. Abrams is an artist and I respect what he presented to us.
I'm going to see it again today (why not?) And I'll write some more of my thoughts down.
A couple quick thoughts so far though:
- Daisy/Rey are awesome. Flawless character and superb performance by Daisy.
- Love love love Kylo Rens voice with the mask on. So sinister. I wish the only time he took it off was to face Han.
- Han had to die. I think as much as it moves the story along, it was symbolically cutting the cord to the past movies.
- Finn is a British actor?!?!? Excellent performance by that young man throughout, especially his accent control.
Do you guys think Disney will do a Marvel and give us a teaser scene for ep.8 in the pre/post credits of Rogue One? I bet they will, because it's a spinoff and it'll allow them to break off from the usual formula of the saga.
One I noticed was Finn grabbing the training orb and chucking it when he was looking for something during an escape scene in the Falcon.
Another was how much Luke looked like Anakin from Revenge of the Sith. It was pretty uncanny IMO. Aside from the scruffy beard. Maybe it was just the hair do.
I thought the lightsaber battles were edited too choppy. Not a deal breaker by any means, but I feel they could have panned out just a little bit and gave them a longer sequence to film in one continuous take.
Kylo Ren did two really big things for me in this film to show off the potential power he's going to have moving forward. If you keep to the films only, not one Jedi or Sith could stop a blaster bolt with the force, that was a major power move. The best we ever saw from anyone was just deflect blaster shots with their lightsabers and the more skilled ones deflected them back right at the shooter. No way about it, Ren has some serious force power to develop.
the other was how he lured Han in close, with the false hope of redeeming his son and taking him home. Han knew it was going to end there one way or another, but to give him that sense of hope was just so Sithy.
Not sure how to take Finn yet, I'm comfortable saying he isn't a force sensitive and will not be a Jedi. But he is going to be a key leader in the resistance. A new General.
Po can fly things like a Maverick. I like him, just a little too happy for my liking.
Some of it did feel rushed. But I also contend that the Resistance leadership are wise old vets who have destroyed two deathstars. So a starkiller base with a massive exhaust port is no big deal. I just feel like the empire should have learned that exhaust ports should be non existent. But now, they heavily armor them and make them bigger!
BB 8 was great, the droids are never an issue. Maz is also cool, I like her.
l loved it, second best movie of 2015 only behind Fury Road. I have very minimal complaints, but overall thought it was a fantastic movie. There are only a select few perfect movies out there, so expecting it to be ANH or Empire was asking too much from it.
I can't believe some people are judging it based on trailers and marketing. Phasma had an awesome costume, but why would I care that she played such a small role in the movie? I didn't pay much attention to speculation and talk to avoid spoilers (I suspected Han would meet his fate), so maybe that's where those expectations came from? But we had so many other characters in play, they can focus more on her in episode VIII.
The fact that they were able in introduce at least four compelling characters in addition to the returning favorites is a feat. It's not like ANH was a character piece with a vast array of compelling characters itself.
More than anything Force Awakens was a better and more competently done version of Star Trek 09 imo. It built off an established universe, paid homage to what worked, and added enough to distinguish itself from its predecessors. I would say it's a better movie, since Star Trek lacked an interesting villain, and the universe isn't as captivating as Star Wars imo.
I would say the movie was a tad too action orientated, but agree that the light saber duel at the end was marvelous. The one on one scenes involving characters were top notch. I wish all the focus was there, and not on the space battles (which yes we have seen before). That being said I would rank it higher than Return of the Jedi. Star Wars and Empire are both 10/10 for me, which is quite a rarity these days.
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I'm not sure he was trying to or wanted to kill her. He knew who she was from the very beginning, as soon as that officer mentioned that the droid had escaped with Finn and a girl. And in that vision it certainly sounded like his voice. Maybe it was just a hint in her mind and his child's voice is replaced by Kylo's in the dream to tell her that he is him.
I don't know if shes his sister or what, but I think it's pretty obvious he knows who she is and wasn't very interested in killing her.
I thought the sequences from earlier showed she was maybe a pupil of Luke's Jedi Academy, and she was relocated to a safe place once Kylo started to turn to dark. At least that was my impression of it. Her reaction to the light saber, I thought was just due to some early training prior to the Jedi Academy shutting down.
Saw it yesterday as well and thought it was really well done. Great homage and attention to detail to the originals while also acting as a transition to whatever lies ahead in the movies to come. Not only in the plot and characters, but also in the cinematography and special effects - far less reliance on CGI and keeping it simple in most cases (vs. the clutter and drawn out battles from the prequels) being two items that stood out to me in that regard.
My only real grievance -
Spoiler!
Chewie after Han Solo's death. I'll put on my movie critic/Star Wars nerd hat for this one but the focus on him after seemed very underwhelming, besides him going somewhat crazy and getting off an awesome snipe shot on Kylo Ren immediately after, which I loved.
For me though, as an audience member and big fan, I immediately connected with that scene and losing such an iconic character through Chewie's character, as he had loyally been there with Han right from the start of episode IV. As opposed to Rey and Finn, who we and Han had only been introduced to earlier in the movie. So while I liked they immediately showed a few seconds of Chewie's reaction after Han's death and I get you have to advance the story, I was disappointed that was pretty much it for Chewie. No real follow up, other than a quick scene showing him looking sad later in the movie.
I don't expect them to suddenly focus on the character development of a Wookie for the remainder of the movie afterwards. But when Rey and Chewie get off the Falcon, Chewie walks right on by Leia and into the crowd as if nothing happened! It seemed more attention to Chewie was paid when Han was getting frozen in carbonite! Just made it seem like he got over it pretty fast is all... whereas I softly cried myself to sleep when I got home
Will be seeing it again on Sunday as well, and probably a few more times after that. Wish I could just set up direct debit to Disney for the next few weeks...
I didn't find that so bad. Devoting any more time to Chewie being sad, I don't know what that would have really accomplished. My only grievance is I was hoping for more from the Max Von Sydow. When early rumors had him as a batttered cyborg Boba Fett, I was quite excited. Still,I thought the movie was great, and all of the spoilers that I had heard before didn't actually happen, so that was a plus. I don't think Captain Phasma was that big of a thing for me. Not all characters are going to have an arc that crosses all movies.
Wondering how Kylo will turn out. Playing amateur psychologist, he didn't really have the upbrining that Vader did. I can't imagine that same fear, anger, envy existing within Kylo Ren, so its hard to imagine him ever becoming as powerful as Vader.
I enjoyed the lightsaber battles. Well done, all kind of amateurs flailing with this weapon that they've really not had the same kind of training as actual Jedi / Sith would have. Almost using them as crude tools. I also appreciated how everything wasn't so "smooth". The Millenium Falcon being bumped around in the beginning was fun. The humour was a lot better, not slapstick stupidity as the prequels, but more funny reactionary comments to the characters.
Do you guys think Disney will do a Marvel and give us a teaser scene for ep.8 in the pre/post credits of Rogue One? I bet they will, because it's a spinoff and it'll allow them to break off from the usual formula of the saga.
I didn't find that so bad. Devoting any more time to Chewie being sad, I don't know what that would have really accomplished.
We're talking about a species that rips peoples arms off when they lose at chess. Chewbacca should have gone insane arm ripping off angry. I was a bit let down. It didn't need more time, just needed to convey his anger a bit more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormius
I can't imagine that same fear, anger, envy existing within Kylo Ren, so its hard to imagine him ever becoming as powerful as Vader.
How can you say that when we don't even know his midichlorians count yet?
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