Spector: Kris Russell would net a 2nd line forward for sure

[Badgers Nose]

I am curious what people think 'would net a 2nd line forward for sure' means.

What kind of names should we be expecting?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I have said it before but I will say it again. I can't believe the Flames actually want to give Russell a big raise (that's what it will take to sign him) and retain him long term. This is madness. I feel the Flames have already got the absolute best this player has to offer and while he has some nice qualities, defensive zone coverage has never had and will never be one of them. I would love this guy as a 3rd pairing guy at a $3 million salary but at $4+ million long term I would run far, far away.

I hope that they're just leaking that stuff to drive up trade value, to make it seem that they aren't desperate to get rid of him.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I am curious what people think 'would net a 2nd line forward for sure' means.

What kind of names should we be expecting?

Evgeni Malkin plays on the 2nd line.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

I am curious what people think 'would net a 2nd line forward for sure' means.

What kind of names should we be expecting?

Think of guys in the realm of Drew Stafford and David Perron. Not necessarily those guys exactly, but guys like that. IMO anyway.

Probably guys that are 26+ and 2nd line is what they are, they have no upside beyond that. Can't imagine a team would want to give up a young player who is already 2nd line for a guy like Russell.

[heep223]

Add Backlund to this deal and get a legitimate second line player, not more 2nd/3rd tweeners.

[Samonadreau]

This was taking up to much space on the PGT.

What would the defensive pairings be should Russell be traded?

1. Option using current roster. Heavy top 4.
Gio-Wideman
Brodie-Hamilton
Engelland-Smid/Nakladal


2. Option keeping the top pairing together
Gio-Brodie
X-Wideman
X-Hamilton
X being Engelland/Smid/Nakladal/Kulak

Or would you be ok with pairing Wideman and Hamilton which could be ugly right now, Hamilton still learning/devoloping and Wideman with his poor defensive coverage.


Or another option

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by heep223

Add Backlund to this deal and get a legitimate second line player, not more 2nd/3rd tweeners.

A team would have to be pretty desperate for defense to downgrade a true 2nd line guy into Backlund, just to acquire Russell. If I was said team faced with that option, I would probably try to find a way to deal picks/prospects instead and keep my good player.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

A team would have to be pretty desperate for defense to downgrade a true 2nd line guy into Backlund, just to acquire Russell. If I was said team faced with that option, I would probably try to find a way to deal picks/prospects instead and keep my good player.

Disagree. There is apparently a huge market for D as the thread title suggests. I'm sure some teams would take your approach but I'm equally as sure that others need help now, not later. This deal would absolutely make sense for a team with strength on the wings, looking for a good 3rd line C and a skating 4/5 D man (both with friendly cap hits).

[Flash Walken]

The thing is with Russell, and other teams will see this as well, is if you put him on a roster with a great top 3 or 4 ahead of him that also has good centres, he will play better.

Unfortunately for him, that Club isn't Calgary.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The thing is with Russell, and other teams will see this as well, is if you put him on a roster with a great top 3 or 4 ahead of him that also has good centres, he will play better.

Unfortunately for him, that Club isn't Calgary.

The team that might benefit from a guy like him is Detroit. Outside of Kronwall, they have a rather soft defense that doesn't block alot of shots (11 is the most right now, from Ericsson - Russell is already leading the league with 39, next guy is at 28) . . . He would easily slot into their top-four, and Holland has been known to get the most out of players he acquires.

Honestly I would take a flyer on Mantha if he was available. Attitude issues aside, the kid is big, has upside, and is in now-or-never mode. A guy like that may be the only way we can walk alway with a long-term asset from selling off Russell and not have to pay big bucks. As far as I know, Mantha is in Holland's doghouse. Risky move, but possible high reward.

[Crumpy-Gunt]

Holy god. I'd give Russell wideman and a 2nd for Mantha. Detroit would be silly to move a player who did what he did in the q before breaking his leg and losing his rhythm. I think he will be a great player in this league as a sniping power forward.

Realistically I would be happy with a player who has more offensive ability in the league right now and can pop right in and score.

It's depressing how many 20 goal scorers we have. Also players who would set career highs if they scored 20. I believe nobody on this team has more than 30 something goals in their career Hudler/Monahan.

Now I know why brad was losing sleep about our scoring last season. It's a miracle we scored as much as we did. Thanks to defencemen pitching in a ton.

It's time to realize our group of forwards outside the top 3-4 guys is terrible. I think only 5 of our forwards have any serious trade value.

Maybe our lack of offensive ability is forcing the d to try and do too much.

Bennett Gaudreau frolik have been our only forwards who pose any consistent threat in the offensive zone..and now they are on a line together. Which I'm all for but that's going to make it tough on that bottom 9

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Realistically I would be happy with a player who has more offensive ability in the league right now and can pop right in and score.

It's depressing how many 20 goal scorers we have. Also players who would set career highs if they scored 20. I believe nobody on this team has more than 30 something goals in their career Hudler/Monahan.

Now I know why brad was losing sleep about our scoring last season. It's a miracle we scored as much as we did. Thanks to defencemen pitching in a ton.

It's time to realize our group of forwards outside the top 3-4 guys is terrible. I think only 5 of our forwards have any serious trade value.

Not too many teams have more than a couple consistent 30 goal guys. The Hawks have three guys who've ever scored 30 (and Hossa has only done it once since he joined them). The Ducks only have two 30 goal scorers (unless you count kesler because of one season 5 years ago).

Calgary is still rebuilding. Let's not get carried away with last year's results and expect them to be an elite scoring team this year. Is it a shock that a team with relative newcomers like Bennett, Colborne, Ferland, Jooris and Granlund decent ice time doesn't have a lot of guys with scoring history?

I think Calgary has a decent allotment of "30 goal capable" guys. Which is 3-4. Eventually Bennett will start to score (maybe he broke through last game) and IMO he will score a lot. So him, plus the top line, is about what the Flames can expect for high end scoring.

Now secondary scoring - 20 goal capable guys? That may be more of an issue. But it is for most teams. Jones did it twice and was roughly on pace last year. He has 3 goals this year - that's pretty good. But he's not a long term guy. Raymond and Jooris were close to that pace, but I don't think you can expect that out of them again - Raymond because he's on the down side of his career and Jooris because that was an anomoly IMO. Bouma is kind of the same.

More positively, Colborne already has 2 and he only had 8 (in 54 games) last year, so he's improving his offence and is a maybe. Frolik got 19 last year and will get bigger minutes this year. Ferland and Granlund are offensive question marks for me - I could see them developing into secondary scorers, or not panning out at all.

But there are guys with some offence in the system as well - Poirier maybe. Shore maybe (probably not). Janko? Klimchuk? Mangiapane?

[transplant99]

Would not be at all surprised I'd we see a Russell for Cam Ward swap.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Would not be at all surprised I'd we see a Russell for Cam Ward swap.

I see Cam Ward as a Flames target as well. I know many are against it but if the Flames could pry Skinner and Ward out of Carolina that could fix a lot of issues.

Skinner is a risk because of injuries and lack of performance. He could also benefit from a change of scenery and at 23 he very much fits the Flames core group. He scored 30 multiple times already but has been pretty bad the past couple years. Again it could all be about a change of scenery. Ward would be an upgrade on what we have now.

What goes back the other way?
Russell likely could be the centerpiece. Either he is someone the sign long term or he is flipped again at the deadline. Backlund is another player I can see on the way out he was a player the Canes were rumored to be interested in a few years ago when it looked like Feaster was going to move Backlund. He is an upgrade on Riley Nash and could possibly find chemistry with countryman Elias Lindholm. Ramonir Hiller would have to be included for cap purposes. The Flames could also include a D prospect or forward as well if Russell, Backlund, Hiller/Ramo is not enough

[Ashasx]

I don't see how Cam Ward could have any value.

[Ozy_Flame]

Skinner has four more years at $5.7 million / year. That is not a contract we need to be taking, especially since Gaudreau and Monahan need to be signed, in addition to getting a top-six RW. Even then, Ward makes $6.3 million this year, and I don't see how we get him without moving a goalie.

[hockey.modern]

I really want to see the flames go after Rychel

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not too many teams have more than a couple consistent 30 goal guys.

2014-15 15 players in the NHL with 30+ goals Dallas (2) Flames(2), 11 teams with 1, 17 teams with no 30 goal scorers.

2013-14 21 with 30+ Ana(2), Dallas(2), Boston (2),Pit(2), SJ(2), Toronto(2) and 9 with 1 and 15 teams with none.

Consistent 30 goal scorers (30+ the last 2 years in a row)

Alex Ovechkin
Corey Perry
Jamie Benn
Max Pacioretty
Tyler Seguin
Joe Pavelski

Pretty small list...

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

2014-15 15 players in the NHL with 30+ goals Dallas (2) Flames(2), 11 teams with 1, 17 teams with no 30 goal scorers.

2013-14 21 with 30+ Ana(2), Dallas(2), Boston (2),Pit(2), SJ(2), Toronto(2) and 9 with 1 and 15 teams with none.

Consistent 30 goal scorers (30+ the last 2 years in a row)

Alex Ovechkin
Corey Perry
Jamie Benn
Max Pacioretty
Tyler Seguin
Joe Pavelski

Pretty small list...

That's what I was saying. Though I would've used a bigger sample than 2 years and doesn't take into account injuries. I'd have a hard time not calling Malkin or Kane a 30 goal scorer even though theyy haven't hit the mark because of injuries. Or Crosby who's missed 2 years out of the last 8 (one because of only playing 22 games and one where he got 28).

[bax]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

Holy god. I'd give Russell wideman and a 2nd for Mantha. Detroit would be silly to move a player who did what he did in the q before breaking his leg and losing his rhythm. I think he will be a great player in this league as a sniping power forward.

Realistically I would be happy with a player who has more offensive ability in the league right now and can pop right in and score.

It's depressing how many 20 goal scorers we have. Also players who would set career highs if they scored 20. I believe nobody on this team has more than 30 something goals in their career Hudler/Monahan.

Now I know why brad was losing sleep about our scoring last season. It's a miracle we scored as much as we did. Thanks to defencemen pitching in a ton.

It's time to realize our group of forwards outside the top 3-4 guys is terrible. I think only 5 of our forwards have any serious trade value.

Maybe our lack of offensive ability is forcing the d to try and do too much.

Bennett Gaudreau frolik have been our only forwards who pose any consistent threat in the offensive zone..and now they are on a line together. Which I'm all for but that's going to make it tough on that bottom 9

Mantha is beyond overrated. I'd be surprised if he even carves out a setoguchi type career points wise.