2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Royle9

It almost never happens, so while there’s no way to give an example of it happening there’s almost 0 evidence of a team trading a top line 200ft center who can put up 40/40+ in his prime who’s had previous experience being the top line in the NHL with a member of a team wanting to trade for him.

The whole scenario is unique, there’s no comparison… there almost never is these days.

(To be transparent I’m not saying Columbus would do it) just simply stating that Lindholm has way more value than lots are giving him.

I think the list of 28 year old players that are UFAs that are worth the 3rd overall pick is small, if not zero. That is how value a 3rd overall pick is, especially with the level off player available in this draft.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I hope they are willing to make the deal as it would be a top 10 all-time bad trade in NHL history.

Top 3 picks rarely get moved at all, especially in a draft with this level of pedigree at the top of the draft. This isn't as much about Lindholm as it is about the value of the top 3 pick (likely Carlsson), those picks rarely get moved and not for a 28 year old FA who is a good not great player.

You are underrating Lindholm and we were discussing this deal as if it was a sign and trade or h had an agreement of an extension in Columbus so what FA? Go look at the history of players taken at #3 overall and find me the ones better than Lindholm, you are going to be finding a damn small list.

[Bleeding Red]

I think some are underestimating who has leverage over whom in this scenario.
After big contracts to Johnny, Laine, and Werenski, they were not expecting a tank season. And with 8 RFAs at the end of this season, and they only have 3 years of Laine & Jenner, Jarmo has to do something NOW or he is likely gone. (on top of that, they only have 3 years of Laine & Jenner.)

Who is making more of a difference next year? Lindholm or 3rd OA?

CGY has Kadri & Huberdeau for 7+ years - plenty of time for 3rd OA to grow into a difference maker.

I think Lindholm for 3rd OA straight up works. Let Jarmo worry about signing Lindholm.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I hope they are willing to make the deal as it would be a top 10 all-time bad trade in NHL history.

It could be but not the way you mean. Lindholm is what he is, a 28 year old Selke contender who used the right way is a 70+ point elite 2 way C. The 3rd overall pick could be an impact player and the deal is good for both sides. There is also a good chance the player never lives up to expectations and you just traded away one of the best two way centres in the game in his prime for F all. So like I said, could be right but not in the way you thought.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I think some are underestimating who has leverage over whom in this scenario.
After big contracts to Johnny, Laine, and Werenski, they were not expecting a tank season. And with 8 RFAs at the end of this season, and they only have 3 years of Laine & Jenner, Jarmo has to do something NOW or he is likely gone. (on top of that, they only have 3 years of Laine & Jenner.)

Who is making more of a difference next year? Lindholm or 3rd OA?

CGY has Kadri & Huberdeau for 7+ years - plenty of time for 3rd OA to grow into a difference maker.

I think Lindholm for 3rd OA straight up works. Let Jarmo worry about signing Lindholm.

The problem is even if Jarmo thinks he should do what's best for him, he still has to go to ownership or the president. Doubt it passes the allow test. Then you look at other teams in the league to see if this would be the best deal possible. No doubt multiple teams this year would give up more for that #3.


Anyway, Lindholm may be the lesser known Ryan O'Reilly, but younger. I think he has the same trajectory as well as he ages. So his value to me in a year like this (assuming an extension is in order), is probably a mid-1st, and two 2nds. Or a mid first and a very good prospect. I have my doubts he nets a top 10 pick based on the work those teams have to do to make the playoffs. All of them have to be patient.

[Bleeding Red]

Originally Posted by bluejays

The problem is even if Jarmo thinks he should do what's best for him, he still has to go to ownership or the president. Doubt it passes the allow test.

Unless those owners are looking at a half-filled arena, then a solid top tier centre may look good.

Then you look at other teams in the league to see if this would be the best deal possible. No doubt multiple teams this year would give up more for that #3.

Who else has a selke runner up who is familiar with the star winger to offer?

All of them have to be patient.

Because that is what NHL owners are all about - patience.

I recall a couple of those "be patient" trades back in the day. Remember Niedermeyer for 2OA? Kessell for 2 top ten picks?

Lindholm for 3OA is easy.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It could be but not the way you mean. Lindholm is what he is, a 28 year old Selke contender who used the right way is a 70+ point elite 2 way C. The 3rd overall pick could be an impact player and the deal is good for both sides. There is also a good chance the player never lives up to expectations and you just traded away one of the best two way centres in the game in his prime for F all. So like I said, could be right but not in the way you thought.

No it is a bad deal only in the way I mean.

If they deal a 3rd for a UFA Lindholm and the 3rd doesn't turn out it sucks but the value is great so worth the risk. One year of Lindholm doesn't change that value in any way.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are underrating Lindholm and we were discussing this deal as if it was a sign and trade or h had an agreement of an extension in Columbus so what FA? Go look at the history of players taken at #3 overall and find me the ones better than Lindholm, you are going to be finding a damn small list.

I am not underrating Lindholm at all and have said this is not about Lindholm as there are almost zero players similar to him that would be worth the deal for the 3rd pick.

UFA's don't get dealt for 3rd overall picks, almost nobody/nothing gets dealt for 3rd overall picks, especially when you look at the value of the pick this year with the quality that will be available.

Lindholm's career is irrelevant because you aren't getting what he did previously. You get him for one season next year. That is nowhere close to the same value as a 3rd overall pick, especially with what we know about this draft class.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

I recall a couple of those "be patient" trades back in the day. Remember Niedermeyer for 2OA? Kessell for 2 top ten picks?



Lindholm for 3OA is easy.

Phil Kessel was dealt for future 1sts with no idea where they would finish. Do you think that deal is made if they already know the picks would have been 2nd and 10th?

Kessel was also a RFA not a UFA which is a big difference.

If we are talking Kessel for next years Columbus 1st round pick 100% I think that is a deal that is in play.

[midniteowl]

Let's take a walk in memory lane, way back when, Calgary has a strong team but just could not win it all. And at the time, Calgary has a young sniper named Brett Hull. Fletcher analyzed his team and figured that he needs a steady defenseman and a steady backup. So he traded Hull for Ramage and Wamsley. Hull turns out to be a deadly scorer and later got into HOF. So, at the time of the trade, were those 2 worth a sniper of Hull's calibre? Some might think they were not, but hindsight tell us that they were, because they won a Stanley Cup.



People now think that Lindholm is not worth the third OA pick, but if he is the missing piece that can propel them to even SC Final and have a genuine chance to win it all, I think Columbus's GM or owner would tempted to go for it. Just look at Florida, Tkachuk might just be the piece that they've needed.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Let's take a walk in memory lane, way back when, Calgary has a strong team but just could not win it all. And at the time, Calgary has a young sniper named Brett Hull. Fletcher analyzed his team and figured that he needs a steady defenseman and a steady backup. So he traded Hull for Ramage and Wamsley. Hull turns out to be a deadly scorer and later got into HOF. So, at the time of the trade, were those 2 worth a sniper of Hull's calibre? Some might think they were not, but hindsight tell us that they were, because they won a Stanley Cup.



People now think that Lindholm is not worth the third OA pick, but if he is the missing piece that can propel them to even SC Final and have a genuine chance to win it all, I think Columbus's GM or owner would tempted to go for it. Just look at Florida, Tkachuk might just be the piece that they've needed.

Two differences being that Calgary was already a contender, not a bottom-dweller, and that the cap has made young talent so much more valuable.

Edit: your logic fits much better for a contender giving up a blue-chip prospect.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Spurs

I am not underrating Lindholm at all and have said this is not about Lindholm as there are almost zero players similar to him that would be worth the deal for the 3rd pick.

UFA's don't get dealt for 3rd overall picks, almost nobody/nothing gets dealt for 3rd overall picks, especially when you look at the value of the pick this year with the quality that will be available.

Lindholm's career is irrelevant because you aren't getting what he did previously. You get him for one season next year. That is nowhere close to the same value as a 3rd overall pick, especially with what we know about this draft class.

Agree fully. Let's say it's a sign and trade for a 7 year deal with Columbus. I don't think even that gets you a 3rd overall pick in this draft. Columbus isn't in a position to make that deal because they're so off the playoffs that that deal isn't moving the dial to that point that significantly. They've got to draft this year and probably another year too, to get that prospect base to build on. I know where the source of this is from (a mailbag question to the CBJ beatwriter), but the reality is Columbus isn't getting a franchise player to build on for years to come. On a championship team you have a franchise centre who pots goals, and Lindholm is your #2 centre. It's not undervaluing him at all. Last year he was exceptional. Not a guy you can rely on to pot that last minute goal when you need it as your #1 player.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

Let's take a walk in memory lane, way back when, Calgary has a strong team but just could not win it all. And at the time, Calgary has a young sniper named Brett Hull. Fletcher analyzed his team and figured that he needs a steady defenseman and a steady backup. So he traded Hull for Ramage and Wamsley. Hull turns out to be a deadly scorer and later got into HOF. So, at the time of the trade, were those 2 worth a sniper of Hull's calibre? Some might think they were not, but hindsight tell us that they were, because they won a Stanley Cup.



People now think that Lindholm is not worth the third OA pick, but if he is the missing piece that can propel them to even SC Final and have a genuine chance to win it all, I think Columbus's GM or owner would tempted to go for it. Just look at Florida, Tkachuk might just be the piece that they've needed.

Lindholm is the piece to put Columbus in the Cup final????

Florida was a top team in the league the year before Tkachuk came in, Columbus is drafting 3rd on merit. They aren't close and no way does anyone in their organization think it is.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Two differences being that Calgary was already a contender, not a bottom-dweller, and that the cap has made young talent so much more valuable.

Edit: your logic fits much better for a contender giving up a blue-chip prospect.

I still think that at some point a team needs to take a gamble and go for it, they can't be re-build forever.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Lindholm is the piece to put Columbus in the Cup final????

I think it is actually really likely that it happens, just based on the timeline we're in. It would be the most Flames thing ever to see Florida win the Cup with Tkachuk and Bennett leading the way, followed-up by Columbus winning a Cup with Gaudreau and Lindholm leading the way.

Don't under estimate the hockey gods.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Lindholm is the piece to put Columbus in the Cup final????

Florida was a top team in the league the year before Tkachuk came in, Columbus is drafting 3rd on merit. They aren't close and no way does anyone in their organization think it is.

You never know, but it's clear that you don't think Lindholm good enough then it's no point discussing with you.

[Saqe]

Feels like a contender would be a much better fit for Lindholm. One more year with a great cap hit- exactly what playoff teams are looking for. Columbus would have to pay Lindholm premum UFA money to get him to stay while giving up something significant from their rebuild, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Lindholm isn't going to put them over the top, probably the contrary put them in cap trouble long term when their own young guys need new deals.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Royle9

It almost never happens, so while there’s no way to give an example of it happening there’s almost 0 evidence of a team trading a top line 200ft center who can put up 40/40+ in his prime who’s had previous experience being the top line in the NHL with a member of a team wanting to trade for him.

The whole scenario is unique, there’s no comparison… there almost never is these days.

(To be transparent I’m not saying Columbus would do it) just simply stating that Lindholm has way more value than lots are giving him.

Lindholm has scored 40 goals once, and that was playing on a line with two of the best passers in the game. Besides that season, he has never scored 30.

GMs aren’t going to trade for him based on that season. They’ll valuate him as the 25-30 goal, 65-75 point two-way center he has been for the rest of his career.

We have a pretty good comparable in Horvat. He got the Canucks a young middle-six forward, a pretty good prospect, and late 1st. Expect a somewhat better return for Lindholm.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Agree fully. Let's say it's a sign and trade for a 7 year deal with Columbus. I don't think even that gets you a 3rd overall pick in this draft. Columbus isn't in a position to make that deal because they're so off the playoffs that that deal isn't moving the dial to that point that significantly. They've got to draft this year and probably another year too, to get that prospect base to build on. I know where the source of this is from (a mailbag question to the CBJ beatwriter), but the reality is Columbus isn't getting a franchise player to build on for years to come. On a championship team you have a franchise centre who pots goals, and Lindholm is your #2 centre. It's not undervaluing him at all. Last year he was exceptional. Not a guy you can rely on to pot that last minute goal when you need it as your #1 player.

If he is willing to sign there why not wait until the summer to sign him? Then you have Carlsson and him which is a million times better.

Paying a ridiculous amount to get him for next season to compete for 8th, and its doubtful they come close to that with Lindholm, is insane and terrible asset management.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

You never know, but it's clear that you don't think Lindholm good enough then it's no point discussing with you.

I am sorry yes I do know that.

Columbus are not one player away from a Cup, let alone one good, not great player.

I can't imagine there is anyone out there that thinks Lindholm is the difference between Columbus bottom 5 last year to Cup winner this year.