This episode pretty much solidified that Pedro Pascal and the dynamic between Joel and Ellie is 100% what makes the show actually work and makes it more than the typical violent zombie fare.
I think it’s more the focus on people vs people rather than people vs zombie that makes the show interesting.
Zombies as ever present threat to create tension works, Zombies as primary antagonists is boring. So is people vs generic solider or generic cult. The show works when real people have conflict with eachother.
There's definitely a crowd that's mad because Ellie isn't like the computer-generated freckled hottie they developed a crush on while devouring cheetos in mom's basement. What's sadder is the more legit sounding excuses they feign for why it's not a good show.
But that was undeniably a great episode. Superbly acted by both. The dialogue felt realistic. And Ellie growing up and becoming more discerning and less naive about Joel's and seeing through his fabrications and eventually drawing the parallel between Eugene and SLC was well done.
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Sorry I called you a loser. I hope you change your mind and watch last night's episode. it was a 10/10.
I wish I knew what the hell you're going on about. I just said you're being weirdly antagonistic for no apparent reason, like you're overly invested in whether people watch or don't watch. I enjoy the show and never said I wasn't going to watch it, so I have no idea where you read or assumed that or why you're rambling on like you are. The show has gotten better as the season progressed, and last night's episode was good.
There's definitely a crowd that's mad because Ellie isn't like the computer-generated freckled hottie they developed a crush on while devouring cheetos in mom's basement. What's sadder is the more legit sounding excuses they feign for why it's not a good show.
There's also a crowd of people who realize she is not a strong enough actress to singlehandedly carry a mega budget HBO show as evidenced by the relatively positive reviews of this episode, and the negative reviews for the episodes prior.
She is poorly casted, and it's reasonable to identify this without being called a cheeto-eating nerd.
Yeah her acting isn't the strongest but Dina/Isabela is right there to help shoulder that load. The hate parade has just been strange to me. It seems to be about more than the acting. A lot of gross comments like "down girl" being thrown around which takes it a bit too far.
I'd be willing to bet if they got a game Ellie lookalike with the same lack of gravitas and acting chops that the same crowd would be a lot more forgiving.
The Last of Us fanbase has a weird history when it comes to outrage over the attractiveness of the female characters. That might not be unique to those gamers though, as I've seen similar bad takes over other game's characters attractiveness.
There was a huge pushback when the 2nd game came out because Abby was so buff and "not hot enough". Just take a look over at r/thelastofus2 for a glimpse of the incel energy surrounding the game and now the show.
It's not fair to say the criticism of the show just stems from the gamers, but there's definitely a big overlap at play.
The Last of Us fanbase has a weird history when it comes to outrage over the attractiveness of the female characters. That might not be unique to those gamers though, as I've seen similar bad takes over other game's characters attractiveness.
There was a huge pushback when the 2nd game came out because Abby was so buff and "not hot enough". Just take a look over at r/thelastofus2 for a glimpse of the incel energy surrounding the game and now the show.
It's not fair to say the criticism of the show just stems from the gamers, but there's definitely a big overlap at play.
I guess maybe there’s an overlap because it’s a small minority that complain very loudly.
I spent a fair amount of time talking about the games and the TV show to not Internet incels and I’ve never heard of any of the online toxicity. But I have heard a lot of criticism over the second game and the TV show.
I think it’s actually very similar to the discussion about snow White in the movie thread. It seems to happen quite often that these review bombers Get all the headlines but no one actually cares what they think. What it does do though is overshadow legitimate discussion About the show/movie/game.
It kind of sucks too because it means that we all have to spend a disproportionate amount of time talking about the incels and anyone who has anything negative to say always has to distance themselves or deal with a bunch of stupid people who equate them to the incels just because they also have criticism even if it has nothing in common with the criticism from the incels.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 05-19-2025 at 04:04 PM.
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I’m aware of the game discourse and the whole toxic energy around women and the LGBTQ community, but in all the discussions of Last of Us and games in general on this board I haven’t really found it here, so I’m not sure why it comes up as a counter point to criticism of the show so often.
Plus I’m not sure the people throwing around “loser” and “nerd” remember they’re middle aged men having a meta discussion on video game/zombie tv show discourse on a 2000s era message board. Calm down fellas.
I quite liked the episode. I liked that we got a little more of the backstory. I do still have some concerns about the characterization of Ellie and the overall structure of this season and the show in general. I feel like we needed a 10 or 12 episode season and more context about the other characters. But maybe it’ll work well when we get to S3. Although now I’m hearing that it’s gonna be four seasons which means it could be five years before this gets a resolution.
The Last of Us fanbase has a weird history when it comes to outrage over the attractiveness of the female characters. That might not be unique to those gamers though, as I've seen similar bad takes over other game's characters attractiveness.
There was a huge pushback when the 2nd game came out because Abby was so buff and "not hot enough". Just take a look over at r/thelastofus2 for a glimpse of the incel energy surrounding the game and now the show.
It's not fair to say the criticism of the show just stems from the gamers, but there's definitely a big overlap at play.
And show Abby doesn't look like she could throw down with a reasonably built grandma in the grocery store produce section and win, let alone beat Joel to death.
Yeah, that line of thinking isn't unique to the gaming community. It's just weird that attractiveness level of the cast plays so heavily into their enjoyment of the show and judgment of its quality.
Critics and non-gamers on average are enjoying it a lot more based on reviews which goes to show that these are mainly source material nitpicking issues.
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Last edited by TrentCrimmIndependent; 05-19-2025 at 05:32 PM.
In last night's episode they made a plot decision that monumentally and utterly disrupts the plot such that it is no longer possible for the story to make sense based on the source material.
To some degree I see this as a positive because they now have the chance to completely diverge for the remainder of the series so it's better suited to the cast, pacing thus far, and TV in general.
I guess moving forward every post I make needs to contain a disclaimer that I am not an incel despite being a fan of the source material, and I believe Bella is a good actress but simply miscast for this role.
In last night's episode they made a plot decision that monumentally and utterly disrupts the plot such that it is no longer possible for the story to make sense based on the source material.
To some degree I see this as a positive because they now have the chance to completely diverge for the remainder of the series so it's better suited to the cast, pacing thus far, and TV in general.
I guess moving forward every post I make needs to contain a disclaimer that I am not an incel despite being a fan of the source material, and I believe Bella is a good actress but simply miscast for this role.
I wasn't sure either so I asked ChatGPT This is what it told me.
Spoiler!
Quote:
Ellie Learns the Truth Differently
In the game, Ellie discovers Joel's lie about the Fireflies by returning to the hospital and finding evidence. The show alters this by having Joel confess directly to Ellie, leading to a confrontation where he admits he would make the same choice again. This change emphasizes their emotional connection and the weight of Joel's decisions.
The scene on the porch (which Bella and Pedro acted the hell out of) should have been a flashback at the end of the series. There's still another season to go, potentially a fourth. It just completely changes Ellie's rationale for everything she does at this point moving forward - they need to change something in the end now that they've put the most emotionally impactful and reavealing scene in the middle of the series instead of the end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno
I wasn't sure either so I asked ChatGPT This is what it told me.
Spoiler!
Yeah. So what they did was combine Ellie's method of finding that info, into her scene with Joel on the porch. The porch scene, when at the end, recontextualizes everything Ellie does. So they've kinda spoilered themselves... but there's a million opportunities for them to make other major narrative changes to create impact.
It kind of sucks too because it means that we all have to spend a disproportionate amount of time talking about the incels and anyone who has anything negative to say always has to distance themselves or deal with a bunch of stupid people who equate them to the incels just because they also have criticism even if it has nothing in common with the criticism from the incels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC
Exactly, it's an extremely loud minority that hijacks any discourse over the actual content.
Oh yeah, I remember we had some really angry complaints in the CP video game thread about how the second game was somehow political and injecting "lessons in gender politics" back when it was released. Pretty wild incel energy, though I guess it's more and more common these days.
The scene on the porch (which Bella and Pedro acted the hell out of) should have been a flashback at the end of the series. There's still another season to go, potentially a fourth. It just completely changes Ellie's rationale for everything she does at this point moving forward - they need to change something in the end now that they've put the most emotionally impactful and reavealing scene in the middle of the series instead of the end.
Spoiler!
Yeah. So what they did was combine Ellie's method of finding that info, into her scene with Joel on the porch. The porch scene, when at the end, recontextualizes everything Ellie does. So they've kinda spoilered themselves... but there's a million opportunities for them to make other major narrative changes to create impact.
Neil, Craig, Halley and Troy talk about some of the changes they made between the game and the show here.
