If this team even has a window still, it will be very short lived. The Flames lost two elite talents up front and got less back than they shed last summer. And that return is slowly declining.
They need to reload in top end talent and be more future/big picture focused. That doesn't mean they can't still push now, too.
It's also a chance for Conroy to put his personal stamp on the team and establish his new iteration of the Flames going forward.
The 3rd pick in this elite draft will be a now player also. Very high chance that that player is a Flame this fall, so the greatest lost would be in terms of experience, but chances are that player will have a higher ceiling than Lindholm.
If that's a center? Even better. We need hope for this group 5 years down the line when it moves into its new building.
Edit: Should add I don't agree with trading Lindholm and Hanifin for 3rd overall. But that rumor from CBJ of 3rd for Lindholm + 2nd...no issue with that at all.
Just a reminder that the ‘rumour’ is a Columbus beat reporter speculating - when asked by a Calgary beat reporter - that Columbus offering the 3 OA pick for Lindholm is within the realm of possibility. There’s zero indication that anyone with the Blue Jackets has considered it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
I don't know. He seems hell bent on trying win now. I am all for it, I just have serious doubts the Flames will move Lindholm for something that can't help next season.
I think at this point, even Murray realizes “winning” is relative.
Darryl is gone.
Tkachuk and Gaudreau and Gio are gone.
Tre is gone.
Conroy is in Year 1. This is a “see what we have” year - let some younger guys play larger roles.
The coach is going to be noob.
If the tandem of Wolf/Markstrom gives this team a 50/50 split of .910 average goaltending, they probably make the playoffs.
If Markstrom has gone Full Turek, they probably don’t make much noise.
But I don’t think Edwards really thinks he has something with this group that can do anything but lose in round 1.
Which could 100% happen, and be a thoroughly enjoyable season.
But sincerely doubt he’d handcuff Conroy from making a futures-based trade for Lindholm/Hanifin/Toffoli now, when that’s how everybody gets new stars.
I think at this point, even Murray realizes “winning” is relative.
Darryl is gone.
Tkachuk and Gaudreau and Gio are gone.
Tre is gone.
Conroy is in Year 1. This is a “see what we have” year - let some younger guys play larger roles.
The coach is going to be noob.
If the tandem of Wolf/Markstrom gives this team a 50/50 split of .910 average goaltending, they probably make the playoffs.
If Markstrom has gone Full Turek, they probably don’t make much noise.
But I don’t think Edwards really thinks he has something with this group that can do anything but lose in round 1.
Which could 100% happen, and be a thoroughly enjoyable season
Well clearly Edwards does believe that and so does Maloney and Conroy because they have said as much. They think they can get into the playoffs next year and make some noise. I mean do you think they were lying about that?
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If this team even has a window still, it will be very short lived. The Flames lost two elite talents up front and got less back than they shed last summer. And that return is slowly declining.
They need to reload in top end talent and be more future/big picture focused. That doesn't mean they can't still push now, too.
It's also a chance for Conroy to put his personal stamp on the team and establish his new iteration of the Flames going forward.
The 3rd pick in this elite draft will be a now player also. Very high chance that that player is a Flame this fall, so the greatest lost would be in terms of experience, but chances are that player will have a higher ceiling than Lindholm.
If that's a center? Even better. We need hope for this group 5 years down the line when it moves into its new building.
The Flames are at a disadvantage to aquire elite talent than most teams. Most teams that win the cup have at least 2 elite level players at either C or D. Usually they have more elite level talent on the wing or in net but you need at least 2 in the center and D positions.
I think Lindholm is close to elite but probably just behind the guys you would typically call elite.
We do not have a dman who is elite or a 2nd center who is anywhere near elite.
Our best bet is to draft an elite player as top player do not want to sign here and lots have NTC that block us from trading for them.
We get 3rd overall pick, we have a guy that projects to be elite. 7 years of cost control doesn't hurt either.
I'm a huge Lindholm fan but if 3rd pick is on the table you have to pay what it takes to get it. Even if it costs us 16 and Lindholm
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That would be terrible imo. As I said in my previous post, Sillinger looks like a 3rd line C at the NHL level to me. The odds of #22 being an impact player are low, more likely a bottom 6, so you are trading Lindholm for two bottom 6 players and a 3rd. I think people will be surprised how good of a return Lindholm can fetch. Especially because you will have a plethora of teams trying to land him given his track record and salary.
Sillinger is definitely a wildcard (as are, the picks of course). Very good Rookie year followed by a bad sophomore year. Having said that, I think he is an NHLer with lots of upside. If the Flames are generally looking for draft capital and to shed some salary, I am not sure what one can expect. I don’t think they would target a one-for-one type trade (Koneckny type?) , but who knows. Conroy doesn’t have a track record yet.
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From HFBoard oiler fan, in analyzing MacT's management:
O.K. there has been a lot of talk on whether or not MacTavish has actually done a good job for us, most fans on this board are very basic in their analysis and I feel would change their opinion entirely if the team was successful.
It doesn't matter if you disagree, or I disagree, it matters what the mandate from ownership is. People are acting like my personal view is to avoid rebuilding or trading for futures, it isn't. If ownership tells Conroy to bring in someone to replace our #1 C it is what he has to do. If your boss tells you to replace a part in a machine with a similar part and instead you order a different design that might turn out even better than the old part but has a very good chance to fail you are out of a job..Conroy isn't going to buck ownership after just getting the job.
That #3 pick is probably the best centre on this team if Lindholm is dealt for him, and the consensus is that he is a sure thing. And a franchise centre playing with Huby is pretty exciting.
The cap space savings lets you get another scoring RW.
Lock up Hanifin to a reasonable deal and we'd have a great d-core for $22 million or so.
Marky/Wolf is a good enough goalie tandem, not too expensive with Vladar gone (and you can give his money to Hanifin).
Trade Backlund, and try to get Sillinger in the CBJ trade for #3OA to replace him.
I'm not so sure we take much of a step back in my fantasry scenario here.
Well clearly Edwards does believe that and so does Maloney and Conroy because they have said as much. They think they can get into the playoffs next year and make some noise. I mean do you think they were lying about that?
I think he said he thought this team should have got in, and that he wasn't planning to try again without his stamp on the team - which was more youth.
So if the option is extend Lindholm for $8.5M for 8 years when he is already 29, I don't think that flies. If dollars or term are much different than he def stays, Conroy was clear about how much he values Lindholm.
I think he said he thought this team should have got in, and that he wasn't planning to try again without his stamp on the team - which was more youth.
So if the option is extend Lindholm for $8.5M for 8 years when he is already 29, I don't think that flies. If dollars or term are much different than he def stays, Conroy was clear about how much he values Lindholm.
The only thing Conroy has made clear is he would like to leave a spot or two open for young guys to try and earn a spot and that he wants to add to the top 6 he already has at forward. That doesn't sound like a guy looking to take a step back. That sounds like a guy who thinks they are close.
The only thing Conroy has made clear is he would like to leave a spot or two open for young guys to try and earn a spot and that he wants to add to the top 6 he already has at forward. That doesn't sound like a guy looking to take a step back. That sounds like a guy who thinks they are close.
The justification is the Panthers run right now.
It's the perfect reason for any team in the 17th-20th range to say hey, we don't need to tear down. Another couple tweaks and we could be like the cats. Anything can happen after 82 games!
And they're right.. but also wrong.
'04 Flames, '12 Kings and '23 Panthers are the outliers, not the norm. That's why those Cinderella runs are virtually spaced out every 10 years. You're banking on being that one lower seed team that comes along once a decade and sees the finals over that regular 1st-3rd seeded divisional team that sees the final 2 or final 4 much more regularly.
I bet Conroy is the kind of guy that believes in unlikely stories and revels in them but I hope we're not making that like..our PLAN for this team.
I'm banking on them being smarter than that but just playing it up because it helps fuel the intrigue of fans and prospective season ticket holders short term.
It's the perfect reason for any team in the 17th-20th range to say hey, we don't need to tear down. Another couple tweaks and we could be like the cats. Anything can happen after 82 games!
And they're right.. but also wrong.
'04 Flames, '12 Kings and '23 Panthers are the outliers, not the norm. That's why those Cinderella runs are virtually spaced out every 10 years. You're banking on being that one lower seed team that comes along once a decade and sees the finals over that regular 1st-3rd seeded divisional team that sees the final 2 or final 4 much more regularly.
I bet Conroy is the kind of guy that believes in unlikely stories and revels in them but I hope we're not making that like..our PLAN for this team.
I'm banking on them being smarter than that but just playing it up because it helps fuel the intrigue of fans and prospective season ticket holders short term.
... or that he realizes all FLA needed to do was make the playoffs, with a league MVP candidate.
The only thing Conroy has made clear is he would like to leave a spot or two open for young guys to try and earn a spot and that he wants to add to the top 6 he already has at forward. That doesn't sound like a guy looking to take a step back. That sounds like a guy who thinks they are close.
If they make this gamble it is not to take a step back.
I get your skepticism on Carlsson, but others are saying he is a franchise player.
I don't think 3 is in reach at all.
I think posters suggesting a later 1st + Sillinger are probably pretty bang on.
And I would do that.
I would too and I think you're right. But other teams could match that offer fairly easily and likely would. Conroy should tell Jarmo that if he wants to ensure he gets the player, he better be ready to take a swing.
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I don't think 3 is in reach at all.
I think posters suggesting a later 1st + Sillinger are probably pretty bang on.
And I would do that.
The Flames wouldn't though. Again, not saying they should or shouldn't, they won't. 3 I can see because you get a player that makes an instant impact. A late 1st + Sillinger? Doesn't fit the plan.
