Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by transplant99

The league is not going to do or say anything until they have time to hear and digest whatever it is the London Police say next Monday

Then, and only then (and after lots of consultation with their legal staff), will they make any kind of decision on what are currently valid SPC's.

They have to dot their I's and cross their T's before any announcement.

I would suspect that all the teams have been informed of such as well.

No need to rush things with all these guys on LOA.

Well I guess all of these players are on leave right now because they asked to be on leave. What if Dube shows up for work and says he is ready to practice?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Titan2

You still can't (technically, ) say he is a rapist if you are trying to be accurate. He has been charged with sexual assault. He has not been convicted.

You could say, "based on the fact he was charged I believe he probably did it" and be technically okay.

In reality what you say probably doesn't matter unless you care to be accurate when you talk. I doubt anyone is suing you. Media companies and high profile reporters are another case.

FWIW Trump tried to sue E Jean Carroll because she said he raped her (and he was found liable of “only” sexual assault and not rape under that statute. He lost because the judge found correctly that rape has a common meaning aside from any technical criminal statute definition. And what he did qualified.

[iggyloob12]

Originally Posted by rohara66

Was it the Athletic article that outlined a lot of the details or where can we read about FACTS with this case/these charges?



I read them years ago, but don't remember where.

Robyn Doolittle with the Globe and Mail reported a lot of details in Dec. 2022 when the police filed a 94-page document with the court.

Some sections of the file have been redacted, including the names of the hockey players, details of the sex acts and the identity of the complainant, but it provides the fullest picture to date of what allegedly transpired in the early morning hours of June 19, 2018.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...-canada-group/

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

This is relevant how? Jake Bean isn't being charged. What do you think happened – something like this?

Jake Bean: ‘Hey, Dad, how's it going? A bunch of my teammates just told me they gang-raped this girl, because of course they would tell me that, and I thought you should know, because of course I'm gonna pass that on to my family.’

John Bean: ‘Good to know, son. Years from now, when Ken King drops dead and I'm promoted to his job, I'll make sure to cover up that story when one of your teammates just happens to be playing for my team.’

I don't think so.

I think something like this happened:

One day after the incident in 2018 London Police and a third party of Hockey Canada launched investigations into the assault.

The Police and the private investigators interviewed the majority of the kids from the team. The parents found out, and this was talked about extensively within this group of people.

Flash to 2022. Massive headlines. Canadian parliament involved. 50+ page thread on Calgarypuck.

John Bean: "Son are you sure you weren't involved in this mess?, We also have a player on the team I am CEO of, Mr.Dube. Was he involved in this?"

Look at all the leaks that happen non stop out of Canadian front offices. The NHL is full of gossip.

You really think many people in NHL circles weren't well aware of which players were directly involved in this? Especially someone as close to a direct source as John Bean?

It is kind of outside the bounds of believability to think that the Flames front office didn't have any more info than the public.

I never accused the Flames org of attempting to cover up Dube's involvement, but they are surely guilty of producing a press statement with terrible optics. Someone should have been less careless on that one.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I think something like this happened:

One day after the incident in 2018 London Police and a third party of Hockey Canada launched investigations into the assault.

The Police and the private investigators interviewed the majority of the kids from the team. The parents found out, and this was talked about extensively within this group of people.

Flash to 2022. Massive headlines. Canadian parliament involved. 50+ page thread on Calgarypuck.

John Bean: "Son are you sure you weren't involved in this mess?, We also have a player on the team I am CEO of, Mr.Dube. Was he involved in this?"

So you're saying the Flames should have done something or other to Dube based on third-hand hearsay?

Look at all the leaks that happen non stop out of Canadian front offices. The NHL is full of gossip.

And they were gossiping openly about this for two solid years, yet somehow none of the gossip ever reached the general public? That's not how gossip works.

It is kind of outside the bounds of believability to think that the Flames front office didn't have any more info than the public.

What I find outside the bounds of believability is the idea that everyone in the entire hockey business knew all these details, yet somehow they never leaked to the public before the official announcement asking the accused to turn themselves in.

‘He that would keep a secret must keep it secret, that he hath a secret to keep.’ —Francis Bacon.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

So you're saying the Flames should have done something or other to Dube based on third-hand hearsay?

No, I'm saying when the Flames front office had a family member of a teammate's of Dube, there is a very high chance they knew a lot of the story.

And they were gossiping openly about this for two solid years, yet somehow none of the gossip ever reached the general public? That's not how gossip works.

What I find outside the bounds of believability is the idea that everyone in the entire hockey business knew all these details, yet somehow they never leaked to the public before the official announcement asking the accused to turn themselves in.

You didn't hear anything about the feud between Mrs.Karlsson and Mrs.Hoffman until court documents were filed, but Mrs.Hoffman was receiving emails from wives on other teams about the issue.

Not sure why you would expect the general public to be in on the gossip? Any negative, unsubstantiated rumor is immediately scrubbed from the internet these days for fear of lawsuits. Also once gossip reaches a certain degree of separation, it no longer carries any more weight than idle speculation.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Not sure why you would expect the general public to be in on the gossip? Any negative, unsubstantiated rumor is immediately scrubbed from the internet these days for fear of lawsuits.

The Internet is not the only place where gossip occurs – and in fact, ‘negative, unsubstantiated rumours’ are all over the place online and are not routinely scrubbed.

Sorry, I don't believe that there is some hermetically sealed wall between all the hockey players, coaches, and managers on one side, and the rest of the world's population on the other. If everybody in the one group knew, then some of the people in the other group were bound to find out.

I believe the secret was known to a relatively small group of people, precisely because it didn't leak.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't see outrage in what Torture posted.

I wasn't suggesting there was - I quoted them because I was continuing the conversation, but the reference to outrage was a general one, amongst many posters on the the topic.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Oiler fans screaming at the Flames from their dumpster Re;Dube, standing next to Perry, Kane & Nicholson

[stang]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Oiler fans screaming at the Flames from their dumpster Re;Dube, standing next to Perry, Kane & Nicholson

Why Nicholson? I mean I’m not a fan by any means, but what did he do?

[renny]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

John Bean: "Son are you sure you weren't involved in this mess?, We also have a player on the team I am CEO of, Mr.Dube. Was he involved in this?"

Jake could have simply answered, "I have no idea dad, you know I wasn't there. Dillon isn't saying anything about it either (cause his lawyer probably told him to keep his mouth shut),

But here's the reality, nobody is going to be able to convince you otherwise no matter what. You do not have proof that John Bean knew, I do not have proof that he didn't know. Saying "I refuse to believe it!!", is just sticking your head in the sand.

At the end of the day, I'll judge the Flames on how they act now that everything is out and in the open. Dube is being charged, I don't care about the semantics of the announcement because who cares? The Flames did not do this horrific thing, direct your hatred of the Flames towards the guys who allegedly did the crime. It's so silly to sit here to bitch and complain about some fricking press release speculating on what they did and didn't know.

If the Flames let Dube come back and play before this is resolved, then I'll bring the pitchforks to your house and we can go burn the Dome down together.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by stang

Why Nicholson? I mean I’m not a fan by any means, but what did he do?

I think it's the fact he was head of Hockey Canada for such a long time, and while he wasn't there in 2018 it's not like the slush fund for settling out of court just appeared after he left.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by stang

Why Nicholson? I mean I’m not a fan by any means, but what did he do?

Fostered and/or sustained the abhorrently toxic culture at Hockey Canada from 1998-2014.

[PeteMoss]

We'd save approximately 10,000 posts if everyone understood the negative Flames response better.

The starting point for that is 'The Flames shouldn't have said mental health reasons' in their release about this - I think all posters saying the Flames screwed up believe that.

How they get to that point is where the semantics come in - you've basically got these avenues:
1) The Flames were told it was for mental health, but they should have thought about it a bit and known he was on a team that was being actively investigated and went with the no details releases the other teams did
2) The Flames were told it was for mental health, but did have an suspicious it was related to the case but released the mental health reason they were given anyways.
3) The Flames knew he was going to get charged and why he was going on leave, but covered for him.


Some people are debating against the #3 position above, but I'm not sure there is anyone who is actually holding that position. So you're in an endless loop with one side arguing against a position no one holds and the other side responding to it.

[renny]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

3) The Flames knew he was going to get charged and why he was going on leave, but covered for him.

But this just doesn't make any sense, why would they cover up for a guy who more than likely won't be a part of your team anymore if you know what he did?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by renny

But this just doesn't make any sense, why would they cover up for a guy who more than likely won't be a part of your team anymore if you know what he did?

The post was saying that no one believes that so there is no need to argue against it.

[MissTeeks]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1753152038853316827

Court documents.

[FlamesAddiction]

The document repeats the same allegation against each of the other four players and says McLeod is also facing an additional charge of sexual assault for "being a party to the offence."

What does that mean and how is it different than what the other 4 were alleged to have done?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by stang

Why Nicholson? I mean I’m not a fan by any means, but what did he do?

With his prominent role in TC and the time spanned in that role, he essentially played the equivalent role of the higher ups who were canned in Chicago when the sexual abuse unfolded there.

Except his tenure likely saw multiple events like that, and he likely knew much more than the personnel in Chicago did.

The neglect exhibited by him and his staff to address these issues (except with settlements behind closed doors which allowed it to persist over years) pretty well paved the way/fostered the culture that allowed the 2018 event to occur.

He also refused to answer the bell on these issues which makes him an even bigger POS who now holds a position with the slimy a-hole collecting oilers organization.

I should hope you're not a fan, and given that you can't piece the "why" together I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

If you truly care about these alleged assaults beyond grilling the Flames for their press release, then you should absolutely care about Nicholson and not be so naive.

[Cycling76er]

nm. already posted.