The Alison Redford transgressions thread. Update- Redford quits.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Two years is an eternity. Prentice, unlike Redford when she won (in a landslide lest we forget), has credibility and ironically the vast majority of Wildrose supporters are CPC supporters which means until Prentice became the massive front runner to become Premier, most of them liked, supported, or had no problem with him. He was the nightmare choice for getting into the race for the WR.

If he turns things around, purges some of the old boys and avoids controversy, the PCs are just fine.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Two years is an eternity. Prentice, unlike Redford when she won (in a landslide lest we forget), has credibility and ironically the vast majority of Wildrose supporters are CPC supporters which means until Prentice became the massive front runner to become Premier, most of them liked, supported, or had no problem with him. He was the nightmare choice for getting into the race for the WR.

If he turns things around, purges some of the old boys and avoids controversy, the PCs are just fine.

And add to this that he is much more widely viewed as a moderate. Contrast that with the further to the right Wildrose and I think it spells trouble for them. That won't do the Liberals any favours either, but rumours of the demise of the PC's are a little bit premature.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Slava

And add to this that he is much more widely viewed as a moderate. Contrast that with the further to the right Wildrose and I think it spells trouble for them. That won't do the Liberals any favours either, but rumours of the demise of the PC's are a little bit premature.

I think that's exactly it. People I have spoken with throughout the city seem to think Redford lost her way, but the WR remains too far right for them to vote for. As always, WR will carry the same support groups as the CPC does best with: Old people (pre-boomers) and rural voters. With both those groups getting smaller every year, I can't see WR making any inroads into the cities unless they shift to be a lot more centrist, which, is what they tried to do at the last election, despite it being against their core beliefs.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I think that's exactly it. People I have spoken with throughout the city seem to think Redford lost her way, but the WR remains too far right for them to vote for. As always, WR will carry the same support groups as the CPC does best with: Old people (pre-boomers) and rural voters. With both those groups getting smaller every year, I can't see WR making any inroads into the cities unless they shift to be a lot more centrist, which, is what they tried to do at the last election, despite it being against their core beliefs.

I don't think you are giving the pc's or wild rose enough credit. It's not the pre Boomer population they attract, it's the boomer gen, the largest voting block in the country.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Makarov

No CEO of a publicly traded company has unfettered power (like you seem to imply). They answer to their board and to the shareholders.

I won't bother listing all of the authority and responsibility that a Premier has that an executive of a private sector corporation doesn't have.

In any event, if you are suggesting that Premier isn't one of the most demanding, powerful, and important jobs in the province, I find that suggestion preposterous.

Politicians come and go. Its the senior civil servants that do the work running this province. Politicians just provide direction.

Has this province floundered since Redford resigned? Nope... barely noticed she wasn't there anymore.... other than the lack of spending scandals..
I doubt the same can be said for Presidents, CEO's, etc of major corporations.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Two years is an eternity. Prentice, unlike Redford when she won (in a landslide lest we forget), has credibility and ironically the vast majority of Wildrose supporters are CPC supporters which means until Prentice became the massive front runner to become Premier, most of them liked, supported, or had no problem with him. He was the nightmare choice for getting into the race for the WR.

If he turns things around, purges some of the old boys and avoids controversy, the PCs are just fine.

I don't speak for all Wildrose supporters, but what you have described is hardly a nightmare situation for me. It seems almost ideal actually.

Respectable leader cleans up the PC party and gets things running smoothly in government.
I don't think the WRA and PC goals are very different, the problem is that I don't trust the current PC group to put the provinces needs ahead of their own political gain.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Politicians come and go. Its the senior civil servants that do the work running this province. Politicians just provide direction.

Has this province floundered since Redford resigned? Nope... barely noticed she wasn't there anymore.... other than the lack of spending scandals..
I doubt the same can be said for Presidents, CEO's, etc of major corporations.

Yeah, look at Toronto the past year. The city seems to be operating fine despite their leadership.

I think the politicians are a lot more like the board of directors of a company. They provide guidance and direction but have nothing to do with the day to day operations. You can operate a long time without a board, but things will slowly get off track.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I don't speak for all Wildrose supporters, but what you have described is hardly a nightmare situation for me. It seems almost ideal actually.

Respectable leader cleans up the PC party and gets things running smoothly in government.
I don't think the WRA and PC goals are very different, the problem is that I don't trust the current PC group to put the provinces needs ahead of their own political gain.

I haven't heard the PC's say anything about a lake of fire yet though?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I don't speak for all Wildrose supporters, but what you have described is hardly a nightmare situation for me. It seems almost ideal actually.

Respectable leader cleans up the PC party and gets things running smoothly in government.
I don't think the WRA and PC goals are very different, the problem is that I don't trust the current PC group to put the provinces needs ahead of their own political gain.

But that's sort of my point. The support for the Wildrose is artificially inflated by hatred of the current PCs. I think that like you said, if Prentice comes in and runs things smoothly that a good chunk of Wildrose support will go right back to the PCs. I don't think there's a ton of hard support for the Wildrose, their true hard support numbers are closer to the 25-30% range, with a massive gap between their support in rural areas and the cities.

Voter apathy can only carry a party so far, at some point they have to produce their own ideas that resonate with voters as opposed to "We're not them, vote for us". It didn't work in BC, it didn't work in Ontario and it pretty much didn't work in Quebec (although that was political suicide by the PQ opening the seperation can of worms more than anything)

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

But that's sort of my point. The support for the Wildrose is artificially inflated by hatred of the current PCs. I think that like you said, if Prentice comes in and runs things smoothly that a good chunk of Wildrose support will go right back to the PCs. I don't think there's a ton of hard support for the Wildrose, their true hard support numbers are closer to the 25-30% range, with a massive gap between their support in rural areas and the cities.

Voter apathy can only carry a party so far, at some point they have to produce their own ideas that resonate with voters as opposed to "We're not them, vote for us". It didn't work in BC, it didn't work in Ontario and it pretty much didn't work in Quebec (although that was political suicide by the PQ opening the seperation can of worms more than anything)

It doesn't help that the WR's leader is effectively the Rob Anders of provincial politics. Saying knee-jerk inflammatory things, etc, is not a key trait of someone looking to run a major province.

PCs are doing well to bring on a popular leader with a proven track record. WR would do well to do the same, but Smith has too much support behind her to allow that.

[Resolute 14]

I'm always amused at how the people who argue the loudest that is premature to write off the PCs are the same people arguing the loudest that we should write off Wildrose.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I'm always amused at how the people who argue the loudest that is premature to write off the PCs are the same people arguing the loudest that we should write off Wildrose.

I don't think that we should write-off the Wildrose. I do wish that were the case, but I don't think that would be a good prediction at this point either.

[Senator Clay Davis]

I don't think anyone is writting off the Wildrose per se. But with that said the NDP and Liberal parties won more seats in Calgary and Edmonton in the last election than the Wildrose did. The Wildrose needs to appeal a lot more to urban voters in order to win the next election, and voter apathy will absolutely not work to woo urban votes. It certainly didn't work last time.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Politicians come and go. Its the senior civil servants that do the work running this province. Politicians just provide direction.

Yes, I agree that the Premier and cabinet "just provide direction", provided, of course, that by "just provide direction" you mean having almost total control (at least in a majority government) over the legislative agenda of the Legislature as well as all government policy.

Pretty insignificant. We could save $200,000/year by just downsizing and eliminating the position of Premier altogether. Who is with me?

EDIT: Its worth noting, too, that the initial discussion was not about drawing analogies between the position of Premier and certain positions in the private sector, but rather was about whether or not the position of Premier was one that warranted significant compensation due to its demands, responsibility, and importance.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Slava

I haven't heard the PC's say anything about a lake of fire yet though?

Some people are just good at keeping their mouth`s shut.

[Erick Estrada]

I'm a believer that all parties that have in office for too long should be turned over periodically to eliminate complacency but IMO Albertans are so set in their ways that things simply aren't going to change.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I'm a believer that all parties that have in office for too long should be turned over periodically to eliminate complacency

Out of curiosity, how long in office for a single party do you consider "too long"?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Out of curiosity, how long in office for a single party do you consider "too long"?

More than 3 or 4 terms.

[LanceUppercut]

Originally Posted by Slava

I haven't heard the PC's say anything about a lake of fire yet though?

I seem to recall a certain PC leadership candidate being good friends and marching in an event that caused a bit of a firestorm due to the event organizers ideas. I also seem to recall that certain PC leadership candidate not coming out immediately and thoroughly repudiating those ideas right away until the firestorm grew too big.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I don't think anyone is writting off the Wildrose per se. But with that said the NDP and Liberal parties won more seats in Calgary and Edmonton in the last election than the Wildrose did. The Wildrose needs to appeal a lot more to urban voters in order to win the next election, and voter apathy will absolutely not work to woo urban votes. It certainly didn't work last time.

In Calgary, Wildrose appealed a lot more than the Liberals or NDP did with well over double the total votes than the other two parties combined. The Liberals won one extra seat due to a concentration of support in a few ridings. Voter apathy was not Wildrose's problem in Calgary, and given the vote totals in 2012, a small increase in support (particularly at the expense of the PCs) would result in a significant gain in seats.

Edmonton, of course, is an entirely different story. Any PC losses in Edmonton would likely translate mostly to seats for the Liberals and NDP - but under this scenario, that would play into Wildrose's hands.

On the other hand, it goes without saying that if Prentice can rebuild PC support, it will almost certainly come from the Wildrose side, which would also allow the strategic support the PCs needed to survive in 2012 to slide back to the Liberals.