The Alison Redford transgressions thread. Update- Redford quits.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

I get the sense that you don't work in a position where client relationships matter. If I take a client out for dinner, whether or not we talk for more than 5 mins about business, it's taking time away from my friends/family. Instead, I'm spending time with a person I barely know, or maybe sorta know, or hell that I don't even like. And I'm using that time to drum up business for my company, and not for my own personal bottom line.

Guess what, if I'm going to be doing this, I'd better be at least compensated with a damn meal.

Also re: misogyny. Do I get points for calling Stelmach a dumbass?

Edit: Had to look up what See You Next Tuesday meant. Conclusion: That's way too much work to throw such a stupid insult!

Edit 2: And can we really call a dude a witch as an insult? Witches are female. I suppose we can use Warlocks as the male equivalent?

What are you talking about? Haven't you heard of a "Boy Witch"?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by V

I should have said "some people" and not just "people". That would have more effectively conveyed my point.

Moving on.

The WR are screwed. There isn't enough in that AG report to hurt the PCs as a party. It will be uncomfortable for a bit, but Prentice will come in and start fresh with a "whole new party". Book it.

Too bad, I'd like to see a change in pretty much any direction.

Like another poster said, I don't think it will work, the whole new party thing, there's been too much quick turnover in the senior leadership role of the PC party and too much stuff attached to the party.

The counter to the whole new party speech is that we've seen it before, meet the new boss, probably the same as the old one.

the only way that Prentice gets ahead of this is to get it out of the news before the next election if he wins the leadership race.

The only way that's going to happen is either he has to throw the books entirely open and probe beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one else in that party was pulling a Redford. Or, reinvent the party by purging the senior leadership and bringing fresh blood in.

But Prentice standing there saying, this is a new day and a new party is going to fall flat considering he's not exactly a new face, he's an old face replacing a so called new face.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

What are you talking about? Haven't you heard of a "Boy Witch"?

Isn't that a byitch?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by saillias

I don't really want to vote for any party Alberta has right now. Spoil the ballot in protest, I guess.

I'd vote for the Marxist Leninist party, however I view any communist party that participates in the democratic process instead of advocating the violent overthrow of the Proletarian to be unworthy of my vote.

[Barbecue]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Edit: Had to look up what See You Next Tuesday meant. Conclusion: That's way too much work to throw such a stupid insult!

heard it used before, worked out great when the manager walked out and all of us giggled like teenagers

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by saillias

I don't really want to vote for any party Alberta has right now. Spoil the ballot in protest, I guess.

The problem with spoiling your ballot is you get counted with the people that can't figure out where to put the X.

I think they need an actual "none of the above" choice on the ballot.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

The problem with spoiling your ballot is you get counted with the people that can't figure out where to put the X.

I think they need an actual "none of the above" choice on the ballot.

I like the idea of a write in candidate line. I would start a grass roots campaign to nominate Ian McDairmid as our next premiere.



Oh I'm afraid that your license plates will be quite unchanged when your friends arrive.

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Like another poster said, I don't think it will work, the whole new party thing, there's been too much quick turnover in the senior leadership role of the PC party and too much stuff attached to the party.

The counter to the whole new party speech is that we've seen it before, meet the new boss, probably the same as the old one.

the only way that Prentice gets ahead of this is to get it out of the news before the next election if he wins the leadership race.

The only way that's going to happen is either he has to throw the books entirely open and probe beyond a shadow of a doubt that no one else in that party was pulling a Redford. Or, reinvent the party by purging the senior leadership and bringing fresh blood in.

But Prentice standing there saying, this is a new day and a new party is going to fall flat considering he's not exactly a new face, he's an old face replacing a so called new face.

2 years is a long long time in politics, but I think it's about 50/50 at this moment.

The advantage that Prentice has over with what Paul Martin had to deal with after the sponsorship scandal is that he really does have a clean slate and doesn't have any "blood on his hands" - unlike say Rick McIver or The Hair. He can easily step in and make a bold statement and clean house of any MLAs clearly tied to the situation.

That being said, Prentice's campaign has really been keeping a fairly low profile and he hasn't been front and centre making public statements to the media - so it's hard to tell if he would do that. I guess time will tell if it's a smart political move to stay out of it and just post things to facebook or via an email newsletter or if he's missing a golden opportunity to be calling for change.

[Resolute 14]

Keeping relatively quiet is the smart play for Prentice. He has no real challenger for the party lead, so no reason not to keep low and avoid giving either his PC opponents or the opposition ammunition.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

I get the sense that you don't work in a position where client relationships matter. If I take a client out for dinner, whether or not we talk for more than 5 mins about business, it's taking time away from my friends/family. Instead, I'm spending time with a person I barely know, or maybe sorta know, or hell that I don't even like. And I'm using that time to drum up business for my company, and not for my own personal bottom line.

Guess what, if I'm going to be doing this, I'd better be at least compensated with a damn meal.

Also re: misogyny. Do I get points for calling Stelmach a dumbass?

Edit: Had to look up what See You Next Tuesday meant. Conclusion: That's way too much work to throw such a stupid insult!

Edit 2: And can we really call a dude a witch as an insult? Witches are female. I suppose we can use Warlocks as the male equivalent?

I was always commenting on government officials expensing various things, not private sector tax write offs. It was others who kept chaning the topic to CEOs, wining and dining clients and the like. I don't have clients to take out to dinner or anything like that, but that's also not what I was talking about.

[transplant99]

Why are people classifying this thing as a "witch hunt"? Is it merely a deflectionary tactic to try and paint the PC's in a better light or something?

This is (and has been since Redford started her reign of entitlement) about corruption, elitism, and greed in the highest office in the province. To try and detract from that is remarkably stupid for ALL Albertans and a disservice to those who think this province deserves better.

Again, this thing is just getting started and i have little doubt others who are still sitting in cabinet are going to have to answer some seriously pointed questions when all is said and done. Redford is in no way the only one who has abused the system and that bubble surounding others is about to break.

Its about bloody time.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

I was always commenting on government officials expensing various things, not private sector tax write offs. It was others who kept chaning the topic to CEOs, wining and dining clients and the like. I don't have clients to take out to dinner or anything like that, but that's also not what I was talking about.

I don't understand why you're differentiating between the two. You're saying if a public sector employee takes a client out or if they're working late, that their meals should come out of their own pocket? They're time away from their family/friends is no less valuable than yours or mine. Having the company pay for the meal while you're working beyond your expected work hours (and yes, smoozing people over dinner is working late) is pretty standard.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Do you honestly believe that being the Premier of a province of 4 million people, with tens of thousands of employees, and with annual revenue of over 40 billion dollars, is an "average" job? If not, why should it be compensated with an average salary?

For a bit a perspective, see here (sorry, couldn't copy-paste chart information): http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle4243534/

You make it sound like the Premier is the boss of tens of thousands of employees and can do whatever she wants with revenues of 40 billion per year. I think you're exaggerating the Premier's overall importance and power in this province.

Its not like she's Fred Mannix and can walk up to one of his employees and say: "You're fired!"... and the guy is toast. In fact I suspect there are very few people that the Premier can do that to.

[darklord700]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

2 years is a long long time in politics, but I think it's about 50/50 at this moment.

2 years is a long time that'll work against Prentice. He will be better off calling an election during his honeymoon period with the public.

In 2012, most people didn't know much about Redford other than she's a woman lawyer and I think it helped her in the election. Soon after that her narcissistic self started to show and she spent a million buck going to the London Olympics unnecessarily.

My guess is it is better to call the election 6 month to a year from now for the PC. Prentice could still be viewed as the new hope Messiah then. Longer than that Prentice will become just part of the Tory institution.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Why are people classifying this thing as a "witch hunt"? Is it merely a deflectionary tactic to try and paint the PC's in a better light or something?

This is (and has been since Redford started her reign of entitlement) about corruption, elitism, and greed in the highest office in the province. To try and detract from that is remarkably stupid for ALL Albertans and a disservice to those who think this province deserves better.

Again, this thing is just getting started and i have little doubt others who are still sitting in cabinet are going to have to answer some seriously pointed questions when all is said and done. Redford is in no way the only one who has abused the system and that bubble surounding others is about to break.

Its about bloody time.

I agree. It is always good to debate, to play the devil's advocate and think about issues from all angles and all that. It's necessary for critical thought and the exploration of issues. But at the end of the day what was done seems like an abuse of power. In fact here we have an audit report specifically saying as much.

So people in the private sector do it. So other people do it and expense things and whatever else, but guess what? Excessive expensing is wrong. It doesn't matter who you are. If you're in the private sector, it's still wrong and I still don't agree with it. I know many friends that expense things to an excessive rate, and I don't agree with that either, and nor should you if you're an investor in a company.

But moreover, I think there is a difference between the public and private sector. If I knew a company was abusive in terms of their executives going over the top on spending, guess what? I don't invest in them.

What choice does a taxpayer have, other than a change of leadership or a "witch hunt", to demand more of its leaders and cease irresponsible spending that seems over the top?

If the PC's didn't want the outrage or public concern, or if they didn't want this issue "blown out of proportion" which so many seem to think it is (and indeed, maybe it is)- then maybe they should re-think their spending habits. Meals? Fine. Hotels and trips for the betterment of Alberta? Fine. Flights? Fine. But what has actually happened? Does any of it really make sense? Not really, and so I guess she shouldn't have done it.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Rerun

You make it sound like the Premier is the boss of tens of thousands of employees and can do whatever she wants with revenues of 40 billion per year. I think you're exaggerating the Premier's overall importance and power in this province.

Its not like she's Fred Mannix and can walk up to one of his employees and say: "You're fired!"... and the guy is toast. In fact I suspect there are very few people that the Premier can do that to.

No CEO of a publicly traded company has unfettered power (like you seem to imply). They answer to their board and to the shareholders.

I won't bother listing all of the authority and responsibility that a Premier has that an executive of a private sector corporation doesn't have.

In any event, if you are suggesting that Premier isn't one of the most demanding, powerful, and important jobs in the province, I find that suggestion preposterous.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Makarov

No CEO of a publicly traded company has unfettered power (like you seem to imply). They answer to their board and to the shareholders.

I won't bother listing all of the authority and responsibility that a Premier has that an executive of a private sector corporation doesn't have.

In any event, if you are suggesting that Premier isn't one of the most demanding, powerful, and important jobs in the province, I find that suggestion preposterous.

You clearly have no exposure to some of the largest public corporations in Calgary. I'll leave it at that, they're closer to dictatorships than democracies, despite being publicly owned and traded.

[Mr.Coffee]

A company should be run like a dictatorship. Weird comparison.

Again companies and the government are different, and there should be different expectations of what they do and how they act, and the behavior of their people. They are inherently different. So to compare Redfords audited abuse of expenses to a CEO is not apples to apples.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by darklord700

2 years is a long time that'll work against Prentice. He will be better off calling an election during his honeymoon period with the public.

In 2012, most people didn't know much about Redford other than she's a woman lawyer and I think it helped her in the election. Soon after that her narcissistic self started to show and she spent a million buck going to the London Olympics unnecessarily.

My guess is it is better to call the election 6 month to a year from now for the PC. Prentice could still be viewed as the new hope Messiah then. Longer than that Prentice will become just part of the Tory institution.

Prentice and Redford aren't good comparables. As you say, Redford was a relative unknown, but Prentice was an MP for six years and a minister for much of that. He already has a public track record.

Of course, OTOH, we were told that Redford's resignation as premier was the nail in the coffin for Wildrose/the opposition. Half a year closer to the election, and the PCs are still in the dumps.

[Resolute 14]

Don Braid is unimpressed with the Tories...

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/po...079/story.html

As one senior PC told me months ago: “We have to get this stuff out to the public now. If it lingers into 2015, and she (Redford) is still around, we’re dead.”

He meant there would be no chance of recovery before the next election, scheduled for spring of 2016.

Thus began a concerted campaign of leaks from party people and MLAs determined to bring down their own premier.

The sky palace story started with whispers from top levels.

There were phone calls that began with lines like: “Did you know they went from India for a weekend in London, before they went to Switzerland?”

Well, no, but thanks for the call.

Behind all this lurks the obvious fact that in order to leak scandals, the PCs had to know about them.

And yet, they poured out denials and dismissals in the legislature every day.

Redford was not responsible for everything that happened. She merely refined to a spectacular level the careless, casual, smug and selfish practices that had become routine in a 43-year-old government.

That is not the narrative the PCs want the media to be pushing to the public. At. All.