[News] Upd: Canadian NHL Teams to require proof of vaccination to attend any arena events

[shogged]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Except for the fact that there is a lot of science backing it's effectiveness. Also, it's not about sheep vs. non sheep on this issue. It is those who care to take the time to do proper research and those who do not.

I love the “proper research” line lol

Can I come check out your lab? Or is your lab actually Google, and your “proper research” is actually just googling things until you think you’ve learned enough buzz words to argue with someone online?

How the hell are you doing “proper research” in your spare time, but dismissing the work done by people who have devoted their entire careers to it? Hilarious.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

People should not be taking an animal drug on their own, without any direction or approval from doctors or health regulators, regardless of it’s potential effectiveness in sparse clinical trials.

What are you talking about?

Firstly I have said that people should not take it unless it is approved to do so. Secondly, Ivermectin has been approved and used by humans for years. So, lots of data about side effects.

Why are people so against a possible prevention and treatment for Covid? I am simply presenting very legitimate scientific data about ivermectin's potential as a covid treatment... honestly, I find this very odd.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I see Joe Rogan fans have entered the discussion.

I love when you can see someone listened to one podcast and now re states word for word what they heard and ignore all other sources of science.
The power of influencers

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by shogged

I love the “proper research” line lol

Can I come check out your lab? Or is your lab actually Google, and your “proper research” is actually just googling things until you think you’ve learned enough buzz words to argue with someone online?

How the hell are you doing “proper research” in your spare time, but dismissing the work done by people who have devoted their entire careers to it? Hilarious.

Proper research: Reading scientific studies from legitimate sources and formulating an opinion.

How am I dismissing work that people have devoted their lives to? I am promoting it - I showed the studies... why do you have a problem with me showing actual data the is showing the promising effects of ivermectin? This shouldn't be controversial. Instead I have people telling me it is pseudo science, it's a livestock drug, acting like I am some nut case... I am simply promoting scientific data.

[sureLoss]

The problem with Ivermectin is that people are taking some "promising results" as meaning it is an effective treatment and cure for COVID. They then use it as an excuse not to get the vaccine because if you do get sick, Ivermectin will cure you.

There are people overhyping Ivermectin so much that they convince others to even take the horse formulation they can get at feed stores.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The problem with Ivermectin is that people are taking some "promising results" as meaning it is an effective treatment and cure for COVID. They then use it as an excuse not to get the vaccine because if you do get sick, Ivermectin will cure you.

There are people overhyping Ivermectin so much that they convince others to even take the horse formulation they can get at feed stores.

IMO the thing about this and hydroxychloroquine and other such "treatments" is that a certain segment of the population wants a cure/treatment/vaccine, but doesn't want that cure to come from the "side" they don't like. So they latch on to these things while at the same time using nonsense arguments against the actual accepted vaccines. They'd rather listen to RW radio hosts dispensing medical advice than Dr. Fauci.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The problem with Ivermectin is that people are taking some "promising results" as meaning it is an effective treatment and cure for COVID. They then use it as an excuse not to get the vaccine because if you do get sick, Ivermectin will cure you.

There are people overhyping Ivermectin so much that they convince others to even take the horse formulation they can get at feed stores.

Yeah, and I have never advocated for this. I am simply saying ivermectin is not some witch-doctor remedy with no scientific support. It has plenty of scientific evidence showing that there is likely a positive effect in treating/preventing covid. This could potentially be great news for this pandemic. We're always going to have anti-vaxxers and also people who can't be vaccinated for immune or allergy reasons, so if this cheap drug can keep them out of ICUs - fantastic.

[Coach]

I feel like most people have voluntarily put much worse into their bodies than a medical-expert recommended (and now FDA approved) vaccine.

If you've ever overconsumed alcohol you've put yourself at a higher risk of death or other ill-effects than any vaccine.

[Icantwhisper]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The problem with Ivermectin is that people are taking some "promising results" as meaning it is an effective treatment and cure for COVID. They then use it as an excuse not to get the vaccine because if you do get sick, Ivermectin will cure you.

There are people overhyping Ivermectin so much that they convince others to even take the horse formulation they can get at feed stores.

That is a problem, but at no time was that stated by VilleN, I see a poster that simply stated there is promising work being done in the prevention of Covid and then the school yard gang piled on and attacked him.
I didn't see any anti vax comments from VilleN.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Firstly I have said that people should not take it unless it is approved to do so. Secondly, Ivermectin has been approved and used by humans for years. So, lots of data about side effects.

Why are people so against a possible prevention and treatment for Covid? I am simply presenting very legitimate scientific data about ivermectin's potential as a covid treatment... honestly, I find this very odd.

you didn't include this (peer reviewed) study

https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance...iab591/6310839

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Yeah, and I have never advocated for this. I am simply saying ivermectin is not some witch-doctor remedy with no scientific support. It has plenty of scientific evidence showing that there is likely a positive effect in treating/preventing covid. This could potentially be great news for this pandemic. We're always going to have anti-vaxxers and also people who can't be vaccinated for immune or allergy reasons, so if this cheap drug can keep them out of ICUs - fantastic.

So how do you reconcile your earlier comments about people refusing vaccines because they don't "trust the technology" while at the same time these people go and take horse meds? How is it that vaccines, which have overwhelming approval in the scientific community, are untrustworthy, but self-medicating with unapproved medications is understandable?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Firstly I have said that people should not take it unless it is approved to do so. Secondly, Ivermectin has been approved and used by humans for years. So, lots of data about side effects.

Why are people so against a possible prevention and treatment for Covid? I am simply presenting very legitimate scientific data about ivermectin's potential as a covid treatment... honestly, I find this very odd.

Then what are we talking about? It isn’t approved to do so, that’s what we’re talking about. Nobody is against it being studied and going through the regular approval process, even emergency approval if deemed effective. Nobody is resistant to that.

Great, there is some positive potential. Doesn’t matter. Nobody should be taking it for COVID until approved to do so.

Lots of data about potential side effects:

Some of the side-effects that may be associated with ivermectin include skin rash, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, stomach pain, facial or limb swelling, neurologic adverse events (dizziness, seizures, confusion), sudden drop in blood pressure, severe skin rash potentially requiring hospitalization and liver injury (hepatitis). Laboratory test abnormalities include decrease in white cell count and elevated liver tests. Any use of ivermectin for the prevention or treatment of COVID-19 should be avoided as its benefits and safety for these purposes have not been established.

And of course the biggest side effect: may not treat COVID.

And you’re a biologist?

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

IMO the thing about this and hydroxychloroquine and other such "treatments" is that a certain segment of the population wants a cure/treatment/vaccine, but doesn't want that cure to come from the "side" they don't like. So they latch on to these things while at the same time using nonsense arguments against the actual accepted vaccines. They'd rather listen to RW radio hosts dispensing medical advice than Dr. Fauci.

Why are you lumping ivermectin in with hydroxychloroquine? Far more evidence to support ivermectin.

I don't want to listen to any one person for advice - I want to read the scientific data. The data is what matters - I don't see why there should be a bias.

I feel like I need to re-iterate this, I am vaccinated. I supported most of the measures the government put in place to stop the spread. I simply find it interesting that ivermectin is somehow controversial - there is evidence it works against covid. pretty cool stuff.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Then what are we talking about? It isn’t approved to do so, that’s what we’re talking about. Nobody is against it being studied and going through the regular approval process, even emergency approval if deemed effective. Nobody is resistant to that.

Great, there is some positive potential. Doesn’t matter. Nobody should be taking it for COVID until approved to do so.

Lots of data about potential side effects:


And of course the biggest side effect: may not treat COVID.

And you’re a biologist?

Nope not a biologist, have a degree and remain interested and as current as I can. Maybe we're talking about different things then - a poster made a comment basically saying ppl touting ivermectin were idiots. I pushed back and said, actually lots of data emerging that this may be a treatment in the future. And here we are now, getting angry because ... I don't even know why. Some people will never be comfortable with the vaccine, or perhaps a variant will emerge that the vaccines are ineffective against. I am happy that there is a treatment that shows promise and is dirt cheap.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The problem with Ivermectin is that people are taking some "promising results" as meaning it is an effective treatment and cure for COVID. They then use it as an excuse not to get the vaccine because if you do get sick, Ivermectin will cure you.

There are people overhyping Ivermectin so much that they convince others to even take the horse formulation they can get at feed stores.

Part of me is kinda for people taking equine grade Ivermectin, it will thin the herd.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

So how do you reconcile your earlier comments about people refusing vaccines because they don't "trust the technology" while at the same time these people go and take horse meds? How is it that vaccines, which have overwhelming approval in the scientific community, are untrustworthy, but self-medicating with unapproved medications is understandable?

That is not what I said. I said, mRNA vaccine long term side effects are unknowable at this point (fact), long term side effects are incredibly unlikely, if the government is mandating vaccines people should have equal access to the mRNA vaccines as well as the traditional ones, because some people don't tolerate the risk as well as others and I believe we should respect that.

I do not support self medicating with unproven drugs. I support the scientific method discovering those drugs and then approving them for their appropriate uses. And, based on the data it appears ivermectin may in fact be a treatment for Covid in the future. Might not -but hopefully it will.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by VilleN

That is not what I said. I said, mRNA vaccine long term side effects are unknowable at this point (fact), long term side effects are incredibly unlikely, if the government is mandating vaccines people should have equal access to the mRNA vaccines as well as the traditional ones, because some people don't tolerate the risk as well as others and I believe we should respect that.

I do not support self medicating with unproven drugs. I support the scientific method discovering those drugs and then approving them for their appropriate uses. And, based on the data it appears ivermectin may in fact be a treatment for Covid in the future. Might not -but hopefully it will.

All science works on hypthothesis based on past experimentation. Long term side effects are as well known as they can be due to decades of study.

And AstraZeneca is widely available if you don't want Pfizer or Moderna.

You continue to ignore studies that say ivermectin is a dead end.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

All science works on hypthothesis based on past experimentation. Long term side effects are as well known as they can be due to decades of study.

And AstraZeneca is widely available if you don't want Pfizer or Moderna.

You continue to ignore studies that say ivermectin is a dead end.

And you continue to ignore a meta-analysis of several studies showing that it is not a dead end.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Just popped in here. I recalled seeing a scientific review from Alberta Health Services with respect to ivermectin earlier this year. Here’s a link if anyone is interested

https://www.albertahealthservices.ca...pid-review.pdf

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by Lanny'sDaMan

Yeah I have more than just Colitis, and I also have had to deal with blood clots a few times. I'm not going to divulge my full medical history but yeah I REALLY want the vaccine, but only when my doc says I am good to go. No need to put me into the hospital when so many others will need those beds.

Fair enough. Was more curious as it is the opposite of my daughters doctor.