Flames fire Geoff Ward, hire Darryl Sutter, signs 3 year deal

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Wow...just watched Kypreos and Maclean on Nick's podcast.

They claim Tre was giving ward his rosters and Ward wasn't allowed any input.

They then say Darryl won't make that much of a difference for too long.

2.idiots .

I tuned out MacLean years ago after Rob Kerr had him on for a segment where MacLean claimed that despite all evidence pointing the opposite way, CBJ was wildly successful on and off the ice under his leadership and specifically because of his leadership.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

So, with this as his criteria, Treliving fired Hartley, then hired Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward? Sutter obviously fits that bill, but there are plenty of rumors that Tre's hand was forced on that move. Peters maybe fits that bill. Gulutzan and Ward don't at all. Hartley, who he fired, was a decent fit.

Either Tre doesn't really use those criteria, or he has been a pretty poor coaching talent evaluator using his own metrics.

Instead of looking for a diamond in the rough Treliving should have just went and got a high caliber coach. A lot of wasted time and effort, including aging players, lost to inexperienced coaches. Look how Darryl motivates certain players who might be struggling; He plays them, double shifts them if they are feeling it, and he holds everyone accountable, especially the vets. We had too many players like Neal and Brouwer who were inconstant, lazy and a bad example and influence on our younger players. Guys who let the team down because they didn't show up to play while the "inexperienced" coach still rewarded them for that lazy behavior. Right now really just feeling more optimistic about this coach and looking forward to seeing what Darryl can do with this group.

[mikeecho]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Those are some pretty crazy allegations to be making. What did they say they had for sources? I would expect something like that would eventually get out to more than just those guys.

If it is the case that's what took place, it's pretty damning for Treliving. But, I would not believe for a second that Sutter would have agreed to come back under those circumstances or that he would put up with it while he's coach.

If this is true, it doesn't really say much to me besides the fact that Treliving didn't want to fire Ward but had to intervene in some way because Ward was failing big time. That's what bosses do. I wouldn't expect Treliving to be twiddling his thumbs while the team is burning.

Originally Posted by fleury

I think people are afraid of those two being right. Personally I think they could be telling the truth - Kypreos is in the know. And it is damning against Brad. I don't think Daryl would come if they wanted to micromanage, but I did find the statement from Daryl early on that the system was not executed, a little peculiar. Often coaches will try their own style out, and it makes me wonder if there was a directive to go with this system based on whatever Brad is trying to put in place. It's not unreasonable, but I hope Daryl gets to fully manage the way he wants.

There's only a handful of unique systems, but the way they're executed differs a lot. You can already see in 2 games a significant difference in how they execute the system. It's night and day and that has nothing to do with motivation, effort, playing the right way or any other vague cliches that guys like Loubo will point to and everything to do with how the coach strategizes the game.

If you're on twitter, Jack Han (@JhanHky) does a great job laying out some of the specifics as to how the Flames are now executing the system. It's not a coincidence that the Flames have gone overnight from being heavily out-shot right off the opening face-off to being the team heavily out-shooting their opponents. They are playing Darryl Sutter hockey in almost the exact same manner the Kings did when he took over in 2012.

Treliving won't need to be overly involved with Sutter in terms of game play. From everything "insiders" have speculated, Darryl was Treliving's original choice going back to when Peters was fired but Darryl wasn't available/interested at that time. And, Sutter knows what he's doing.

[taxbuster]

This is a coach's talk I *love* to hear:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1371165011436056579

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

So, with this as his criteria, Treliving fired Hartley, then hired Gulutzan, Peters, and Ward? Sutter obviously fits that bill, but there are plenty of rumors that Tre's hand was forced on that move. Peters maybe fits that bill. Gulutzan and Ward don't at all. Hartley, who he fired, was a decent fit.

Either Tre doesn't really use those criteria, or he has been a pretty poor coaching talent evaluator using his own metrics.

Ultimately these points are not just about coach -> player they are also and most importantly about player -> player.

It’s all about trust that all people on a team are authentic, communicating, inspiring, and accountable.

Trust breeds confidence in oneself and collectively.

It’s also iterative. A coach has a roster and a roster is always fluid with injuries, signings, call ups and trades. A manager tries to tweak a roster (or overhaul a roster if need be) to help a coach based on their plan, personnel and strategy.

Hartley lost trust with the players and his ability to communicate. Treliving owned it, as he want able to get the pieces Bob needed/wanted.

Gulatzan lost authenticity and wasn’t able to hold players accountable. I think his mistake here is a result of the rebuild being advanced by the 2015 playoffs.

It looked like the Flames needed a coach who would have them playing a different or more modern style .

Didn’t work. He owned it.

The Peters/Ward saga is just a unicorn of a disaster for the Flames and Treliving. You get seduced by the 2018/19 regular season. Ultimately Peters lost his ability to inspire and communicate with the players and Ward lost accountability.

If anyone can leverage all the experience learned from these mistakes and misters, it’s Darryl. He understands what with confidence everything works better, especially with young players like Dube & Valimaki. I’m excited to see what he can do with guys like Hanifin, Andersson, and Kylington as well.

[MrMike]

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/03/14/f...darryl-sutter/

Great article about the Flames adjusted system under Darryl Sutter.

[tvp2003]

Some things intrigue me about how this all came about:

- If Sutter comes in before this season started (i.e. after the bubble), is there still the same level of buy-in? I mean, Sutter will demand nothing less, but part of me thinks that struggling out of the gate in January, playing like crap, and getting beatdowns from Edmonton and Ottawa made it abundantly clear to the players that what they were doing before wasn't good enough.

- Also, it's not like Sutter was coaching somewhere else and suddenly came into a new team and a new situation. I'm sure he's watched his fair share of Flames games over the past few years, and especially this season and in the bubble. I bet he had a pretty clear vision in his head what he had on this team and what he needed to do.

Originally Posted by taxbuster

This is a coach's talk I *love* to hear:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1371165011436056579

"There's guys that coach for a long time, and they're career coaches, and they never win nothing"

Haha -- shots fired. I love it. Darryl's in it to win it all.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMike

https://thewincolumn.ca/2021/03/14/f...darryl-sutter/

Great article about the Flames adjusted system under Darryl Sutter.

Thing about moving it up quickly, even if the pass isn’t on, you are moving in the right direction. And dumping in - even if you don’t win the puck, you’re making them go 200 feet.

Now, this requires detail and work level. If an aggressive forecheck isn’t done right, it makes the opposition breakout easier (see Edmonton v. Toronto where the Oiler forecheckers constantly got caught deep and Toronto went up 5 on 3). So what I want to see is how the Flames can be consistent with it. It’s an easy backslide to ease off on the hard work of forecheck or to move the puck more slowly. Luckily, I don’t think Sutter will allow it. I think this is the difference between him and other coaches. His superpower is not system, but communication and perseverance in enforcing detail and execution. Frankly, I think Sutter could make any system work because he’s a guy who demand that his players perform.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Some things intrigue me about how this all came about:

- If Sutter comes in before this season started (i.e. after the bubble), is there still the same level of buy-in? I mean, Sutter will demand nothing less, but part of me thinks that struggling out of the gate in January, playing like crap, and getting beatdowns from Edmonton and Ottawa made it abundantly clear to the players that what they were doing before wasn't good enough.

- Also, it's not like Sutter was coaching somewhere else and suddenly came into a new team and a new situation. I'm sure he's watched his fair share of Flames games over the past few years, and especially this season and in the bubble. I bet he had a pretty clear vision in his head what he had on this team and what he needed to do.



"There's guys that coach for a long time, and they're career coaches, and they never win nothing"

Haha -- shots fired. I love it. Darryl's in it to win it all.

In the presser he said he’d watched 10 or so Flames games this year and I was surprised it was so few, though I guess he was still consulting with Anaheim so maybe he was too busy.

[MrMike]

It goes right into what his said about what wins games. Puck possession, zone time, shots or whatever it was. Get into the zone fast and don’t give the other team a chance to set up and play their game.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by MrMike

It goes right into what his said about what wins games. Puck possession, zone time, shots or whatever it was. Get into the zone fast and don’t give the other team a chance to set up and play their game.

Yes. The forecheck, if done correctly, either gets you the puck, or at the very least, delays their exit while your other guys set up the D.

[EVERLAST]

Definitely a good article.

I keep harping on it but as a part of possession of the puck when our forwards actually BACKCHECK and one forward is allowed deep to forecheck the puck carrier give thr D time to skate the puck out of our zone Clean We don't have to worry about coughing up the puck as much in the neutral zone because we still have possession with no chance of a errant pass coming out of our end.

This transition when done properly puts everyone in a position to succeed.

We have excellent D to do this....Raz, Tanev , Valimaki and Gio when motivated can do this remarkably well.....I'd like to see.Mackey replace Nesterov or.put Stone in his place...both are meaner and have better shots from thr points.



Our D could be a little nastier in protecting thr house for sure but Raz, Tanev, Gio and Valimaki do posses the ability to be nasty if pushed .

I miss Engelland....hell I miss every surley D that we've ever had right now such as Regher, Montador, Commodore, Suter, Macoun, Ramage, MCCrimmon,

Keep the other team hemmed in ALL game.

[GioforPM]

I’m half wanting to see a lazy performance out of one of the top players to see what happens. Or maybe a backsliding period (that doesn’t result in a bunch of goals against). I want to see how Sutter handles them.

[EVERLAST]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m half wanting to see a lazy performance out of one of the top players to see what happens. Or maybe a backsliding period (that doesn’t result in a bunch of goals against). I want to see how Sutter handles them.

Sutter does the opposite of every other coach we've seen. When a player struggles he often doesn't sit them....he gives them more ice time.

It's like working an animal on a farm with him. They get more attention NOT less.

Said player sure as hell isn't left in thr lurch wondering wtf and why am I being punished.

If you f up under Darryls watch its 100 % on you . I'm sure he's had his regrets in thr past but every player should want a coach like Darryl and his assistants.

One guy who should be happy is BT ....because to be honest ....Brad has used all the rope he's been given and should be given no more IMHO.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Sutter does the opposite of every other coach we've seen. When a player struggles he often doesn't sit them....he gives them more ice time.

It's like working an animal on a farm with him. They get more attention NOT less.

Said player sure as hell isn't left in thr lurch wondering wtf and why am I being punished.

If you f up under Darryls watch its 100 % on you . I'm sure he's had his regrets in thr past but every player should want a coach like Darryl and his assistants.

One guy who should be happy is BT ....because to be honest ....Brad has used all the rope he's been given and should be given no more IMHO.

Sitting works for some players (mostly the kids) and not for others. And if you sit a player it needs to be clear why, and what they can do. Including video, watching with a coach upstairs, etc. There’s hardly any raw kids on this team though - Valimaki and I guess Dube. I would imagine past coaches thought they were communicating, but Sutter has the street cred to make it stick, and Treliving made it pretty clear as well.

I guess what I’m saying is that there will be a tendency to regress to old habits and I’m interested to see what happens. I’m sure Sutter will handle it fine.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by mikeecho

I tuned out MacLean years ago after Rob Kerr had him on for a segment where MacLean claimed that despite all evidence pointing the opposite way, CBJ was wildly successful on and off the ice under his leadership and specifically because of his leadership.

Before completely throwing them under the bus, there could be a kernel of truth around the centre situation if the organization wanted Lindholm as a centre or to showcase Bennett. I recall a previous flames coach say their job is to win games not develop players, so there is a potential to conflict with the GMs broader goals.

Still, if this even happened, it’s a far cry from the GM dictating the roster.

[Roof-Daddy]

It's only two games
It's only two games
It's only two games


I have to keep telling myself this, but what an amazing difference we're seeing on the ice in JUST TWO GAMES.

Is it some sort of dead cat/new coach bounce? Or can such instant and measurable results mean that we're possibly just seeing the tip of the ice berg here?

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Sitting works for some players (mostly the kids) and not for others. And if you sit a player it needs to be clear why, and what they can do. Including video, watching with a coach upstairs, etc. There’s hardly any raw kids on this team though - Valimaki and I guess Dube. I would imagine past coaches thought they were communicating, but Sutter has the street cred to make it stick, and Treliving made it pretty clear as well.

I guess what I’m saying is that there will be a tendency to regress to old habits and I’m interested to see what happens. I’m sure Sutter will handle it fine.

Good point, I might add punishment based management is a bit old style verses positive reinforcement. For example if you tell your child if he doesn't brush his teeth he is going to get a spanking, the end feeling for that child is negative... but if you tell that same child if you brush your teeth ill read you a story. The end result is positive. The child does it because he wants to not because he feels fear and feels forced.

A lot of it with Sam might just be between the ears and if he can gain enough confidence his other skills will find some opportunities. Benching the right way should bring positive results if not just used as punishment.

[868904]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

This is a coach's talk I *love* to hear:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1371165011436056579

If the players in that locker room are lacking any confidence as to what they are, that interview alone should give them all the confidence they need.

Darryl isn't doing this because he needs the pay cheque or wants to spend time away from his family or his first passion of ranching, he's doing this because he believes he has a chance to win a cup here.

Time will tell whether he's able to actually do it, but if you are a player, you should take that as a massive confidence boost.

The more that you hear, the more I'm starting to think that Darryl only came back after Treliving got Markstrom. There's no way Darryl comes back with Rittich, Talbot, Smith, Elliot, Hiller, Ramo as his number 1 goalie.

[Vinny01]

I am not really surprised at all the Flames have looked this good under Sutter. It does still feel somewhat surreal that it actually happened but this was the move the team should have made in 2018 over Bill Peters.

Glad it happened eventually and am excited to see where he can take the team this year. If they start feeling it and begin to play with confidence in addition to the harder work they will go on an impressive winning streak