General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[Daradon]

Wow, I guess everyone in this city is disorganized and loopy.

Too much sun I tell ya.

[Vulcan]

Besides suffering from heatstroke, it seems to me that Phoenix doesn't care one way or the other. There are not enough signatures to kybosh the deal nor are there enough paying fans to make the team profitable.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by troutman

Good news for Jamison:

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt Confirmed: ‪#Glendale‬ has rejected attempted sales-tax initiative.


From #Glendale release: "The city found that the initiative effort failed to comply with several critical aspects of the state statutes pertaining to initiative petitions. Most importantly, the description of the initiative text that appeared on all of the petitions was inaccurate and misleading to the voters who signed the petitions."

Niceeeeee! one step fwd

Also below, should be interesting tomorrow as well..

Coyotes referendum signatures could be turned in Thursday, setting up fight with Glendale

/11/coyotes-referendum-signatures-could-be.html

[troutman]

Glendale rejects group's attempt to overturn sales-tax increase

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...-increase.html

Last week, a business group submitted 4,138 signatures in an attempt to reverse a 0.7 percent sales-tax hike approved by the City Council. About 2,100 valid signatures are required.

Rejection letter


City Attorney Craig Tindall on Wednesday said fatal errors mean Save Glendale Now's efforts were in vain.

He also dismissed a second group's effort to overturn the city's deal with a likely Phoenix Coyotes buyer.

Both groups could mount a legal challenge to get on the ballot.

Both groups behind the possible ballot measures have yet to back down. The sales-tax group said Wednesday that they are consulting with attorneys and may consider a legal challenge. Glendale resident Ken Jones, pushing for a referendum to overturn the city's 20-year $324million arena lease with Jamison, said he plans to submit signatures in the coming days despite the city's Monday deadline.

Tindall said both groups failed to follow the rules.

A lawyer in California provides his educated guess on the challenge facing the sales tax petitioners (post #799):

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...224735&page=32

[automaton 3]

A municipality stepping on a citizen's initiative just smells bad. I suspect the Court will take a hard look at this one should the citizen's group bring an application.

[tjinaz]

A licensed atty from Arizona disagrees and thinks it will stick.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...224735&page=33

I'm a licensed Arizona attorney, but I will admit I am no elections law expert. Notwithstanding that, it isn't very hard to read the statute and a few cases to know that, at least in Arizona, strict compliance is required here and even technical defects can lead to rejection of the petitions. This is a dot the "i" and cross the "t" area, and close isn't good enough, at least under Arizona law.

I understand to some it might be frustrating to hear that the rejection of the petitions will likely be affirmed so long as the techinical violations the CoG has identified are indeed accurate, but my unsolicited and non-expert opinion is that it is highly unlikely the petitioneers will get any relief, at the trial court or appellate court level. And, the petitioneers may be subject to an award of attorney fees so I question whether Cobb/Jones at least will follow through on the threat of a court challenge. The tax initiative has some people behind it with money and resources to fight. I'm not so sure Cobb/Jones have the stomach, even if the GWI provides them with free representation. Jones is already facing a potential attorney fee award for the last go around wiht the CoG, and he can pay his water bill for years with the potential exposure he may face if he were to lose his challenge and the court were to award the City's fees against him. I suppose he could insulate himself by suing in the name of his PAC, but there appears to be issues with whether the PAC was properly formed and administered in accordance with elections laws.

The only challenge I see coming is a potential gift clause challenge by the GWI should Jamison be able to close. I continue to think this is all the tail wagging the dog because the real issue remains and that is whether Jamison has the $$$.

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

A municipality stepping on a citizen's initiative just smells bad. I suspect the Court will take a hard look at this one should the citizen's group bring an application.

Just as the court took a hard look at previous claims and tossed them out? Outside of the Emergency measure wording?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by automaton 3

A municipality stepping on a citizen's initiative just smells bad. I suspect the Court will take a hard look at this one should the citizen's group bring an application.

It only smells bad if you actively want it to smell bad. Separate yourself from the "relcoate the Coyotes" aspect and just look at it in general. What you are basically suggesting is that the city be forced to accept any and every initiative that claims to have met the requirements without any real process to validate it. That simply opens the door to widespread fraud.

We will probably see, however, if the courts decide whatever defects exist are fatal to the petition, which is also a fair check and balance.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Just as the court took a hard look at previous claims and tossed them out? Outside of the Emergency measure wording?

Yep the City looks to have some strong technical arguments.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

A licensed atty from Arizona disagrees and thinks it will stick.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...224735&page=33

There is a good legal discussion going on there . . .

[troutman]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/free_...n_making_time/

While Doan had initially given a July 9 deadline, and then a July 16 deadline, awaiting clarity on a deal to keep the only franchise the veteran has ever played for in Phoenix, Bross told USA Today that the idea of waiting until Monday is now off the table.

There is still no certainty whether potential Coyotes owner Greg Jamison will be successful in his bid to take hold of the team and keep it in the desert.

"There is no relevance to the July 16th date for us," Bross told the paper on Wednesday. "We are getting to the point where it is going to be decision-making time."

[Daradon]

I gotta agree with what tjinaz posted here. No experience of my own as a lawyer (obviously) or client, but it sounds like the parties involved screwed up and don't have much recourse. I mean, they can always try right? But they could just be wasting time and money.

Knowing what I do know about working with city hall the post is right. Gotta do it to the letter and it was starting to become apparent last week like they weren't.

I'm not sure what the big problem was, like I said those sigs shoulda been easy to get in the proper fashion, but it seems clear that they did not.

Course, with that website that was posted I can't say I'm really surprised they decided to do it 'their way'.

[automaton 3]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

It only smells bad if you actively want it to smell bad. Separate yourself from the "relcoate the Coyotes" aspect and just look at it in general. What you are basically suggesting is that the city be forced to accept any and every initiative that claims to have met the requirements without any real process to validate it. That simply opens the door to widespread fraud.

We will probably see, however, if the courts decide whatever defects exist are fatal to the petition, which is also a fair check and balance.

I personally don't really care what happens to the Coyotes. The Court will find a way to achieve what they think is the fairest and most equitable result. Perhaps the defects will indeed be found to be fatal. On the other hand, we know the City has no interest in this initiative and it should be no surprise to anyone that they found reasons to reject it.

[Muta]

Fine line to walk. The minute people's tax money is funneled to indirectly support the Coyotes through this arena deal, and they start failing / posting low attendance again, you can bet people are gonna be pissed right off. Some people, I wager, will start arguing why the Coyotes are being supported while their own business aren't. I understand a professional sports team will bring more to the local economy than a great number of other business, but the point still remains and individuals will claim unfairness.

[tjinaz]

Fine line to walk. The minute people's tax money is funneled to indirectly support the Coyotes through this arena deal, and they start failing / posting low attendance again, you can bet people are gonna be pissed right off. Some people, I wager, will start arguing why the Coyotes are being supported while their own business aren't. I understand a professional sports team will bring more to the local economy than a great number of other business, but the point still remains and individuals will claim unfairness.

City financed a very big portion of what is now called Chase field and there were no uprisings when the DBacks numbers plummeted. Even GWI didn't care a whit as their board member is married to Dbacks CEO. City of Mesa just spent millions on a new field for the Cubs Cactus league games and it is used for about 6 weeks a year. Only reason this is an issue is because of GWI and only then because it is not baseball.

On the other hand.... coming off the franchises deepest playoff run ever and with the Suns just trading Nash to the evil empire reducing the number of Suns fans, if fan support drops off this year.. then you are right and we don't deserve a team.

[EddyBeers]

How long is this thing in Phoenix going to last. When you are basically giving a team away and no businessman in his right mind wants to take the team, you have to wonder about the validity of the business operation.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

City of Mesa just spent millions on a new field for the Cubs Cactus league games and it is used for about 6 weeks a year. Only reason this is an issue is because of GWI and only then because it is not baseball.

A couple points. First, Goldwater never went after Glendale for building Jobing.com, so you are comparing apples (lease deal) to oranges (infrastructure).

Second, I'm sure you are also aware of he Arizona Fall League, so it is closer to 14 weeks.

[troutman]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...al%29&page=all

The Goldwater Institute could still challenge the arena deal as a violation of the Arizona Constitution’s gift clause, which bans excessive government subsidies to businesses.

Goldwater attorneys represented Jones and Cobb in their initial legal challenge to the arena deal, but Caldwell said they will not act as the pair’s counsel in the ballot fight.

Cobb said he and Jones have other lawyers ready to represent them.

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt ‪#Glendale‬ spokeswoman says ‪#Coyotes‬ referendum group turned in 1,568 signatures today.

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt
That's short of the 1,862 signatures needed to get the ‪#Coyotes‬ referendum on the ballot.

Lisa Halverstadt ‏@LisaHalverstadt
‪#Coyotes‬ referendum organizer Ken Jones says he believes his group only needed 1,100 valid signatures.

[troutman]

Glendale's rebuff of 2 ballot measures may end up in court

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...-go-court.html

A business group trying to reverse a City Council-approved 0.7 percent sales-tax increase is considering its next steps after failing to get its initiative on the ballot. The group, Save Glendale Now, would have until Monday to sue to get the measure back on the ballot.

Meanwhile, supporters of a referendum to overturn the city's arena deal with a potential Coyotes buyer say they will consider a lawsuit if Glendale doesn't accept their signatures. The group turned in signatures Thursday, three days after the city attorney said they were due. The group also was short about 300 signatures, according to the city.

City Attorney Craig Tindall on Wednesday said errors hampered both groups. He's confident the city will prevail if either proposed ballot measure goes to court.

Phoenix election-law attorney Andy Gordon said a judge may interpret issues differently than Glendale.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

How dumb are these people on both sides of this?