Toronto Blue Jays vs. Cleveland Indians - ALCS

[Jason14h]

I would love for a Votto trade and sign an OF who can lead off . Not sure who is avail that fits that mold.

Then sign 2 quality bullpen arms

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Bats weren't consistent enough all season but the positive is that this teams pitching staff continued their regular season success into the playoffs.

Good news is moving forward we have a stacked rotation (Sanchez, Estrada, Happ, Stroman, Liriano), a good closer, and still have one of the top 5 position players in the MLB in Donaldson.

Also happen to have the management team that built the Cleveland team we just lost to running the Jays organization now - so that's a positive too.

Did Miocic break the "Cleveland Curse" when he won the UFC Heavyweight title?

Shortly after the Cavs won the NBA title and now the Indians are in the World Series.

Really it's the Warriors fault for the end of the Cleveland Curse, can't blow a 3-1 lead to a Cleveland team. But the Browns are still the Browns and they are beholden to a totally unique curse, sorry Browns fans.

[Caged Great]

Look at when the Jays won the world series. They had guys like Winfield, Alomar, Olerud, and Molitor who were legitimately good hitters who could also hit the occasional HR.

The current jays team have only three decent hitters in Travis, EE and Donaldson. The rest are below average to bad. Can't win with that.

[868904]

Originally Posted by cross16

You mean the Carrera who struck out? Those little details?

Well maybe it was Barney, still, a decent runner. Would have been a tougher play at first, there is no question about that.

I know you are being snarky with your "details", but the point remains, Gibbons doesn't care about the little details and it cost him.

You try for every advantage you can get to extend the inning or keep it going.

[Joborule]

If Jays can get players that bat for what they're given rather than always swinging for the fences, the Jays are still in good shape for October baseball in the upcoming years. Pitching should stay the same, if not get better.

[Jiggy_12]

The negativity and anger is so disheartening to see.

This team gave us an unforgettable wildcard win, followed by a sweep of the Rangers in a series everyone was salivating over - including another extremely memorable walk off win.

We made the final 4, and in a short series (yes, 7 games is still short in comparison to 162 game season) we got beat by a team that played better in 4 of the 5 games.

If you're constantly negative and down on the team, eventually you're going to be right. Hope the journey was as fun for you guys as it was for me.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I'm not arguing that Cleveland had a better approach (I don't think they actually did. Both teams had the same approach and 1 guy who basically hit in Lindor and JD) BUT

Your point was they manufactored runs, and they didn't all series. They outslugged the Jays.

The Jays biggest problem was they missed a TON of pitchers mistakes.

I'm pretty sure I saw them getting guys on base and stealing second and scoring on singles. That's manufacturing runs.

It doesn't matter how many homeruns Cleveland hit. They can do it anyway which way, which is the whole point. They aren't relying on the home run or on one way of scoring.

[Jason14h]

Except they didn't .

Just saying it doesn't make it so !

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

The jays need to re-invest the 45 million given to EE, Jose, and RA Dickey into quality bats period. The jays need quality hitters, not just swing for the fence all day guys.

Left handed batters that can hit to all fields and get on base consistently. Also guys who can run well.

They also need to put some money in the bullpen.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Except they didn't .

Just saying it doesn't make it so !

Not in Game 5, but they were for the first few games.

You don't lose the series in one game.

Are you really arguing that Cleveland does not manufacture runs and relys solely on the long ball?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by cross16

Calling this a choke is ridiculously and completely unfair. Remember the Indians shut down the red Sox who are the best offence in baseball.
I wish they could have done more but choke? That's ridiculous. Indians are a real good baseball team

The statements aren't mutually exclusive. The Indians are a damn good ball team. But the Jays offence still choked.

Baustista likely mouthed his way out of Toronto this series, but take his money and get a decent bat in replacement, and make sure you get EE re-signed, and we can make a go of it next year.

[alan21]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

The negativity and anger is so disheartening to see.

This team gave us an unforgettable wildcard win, followed by a sweep of the Rangers in a series everyone was salivating over - including another extremely memorable walk off win.

We made the final 4, and in a short series (yes, 7 games is still short in comparison to 162 game season) we got beat by a team that played better in 4 of the 5 games.

If you're constantly negative and down on the team, eventually you're going to be right. Hope the journey was as fun for you guys as it was for me.

None of the losses were blowouts either.

Not sure if it would've been worse beating beaten to death with a juggernaut offense or being grinded to death by strong pitching. Either way, there was plenty of memorable parts to the season and from a fan that didn't see any playoff baseball for 22 years, the last two have been a treat.

I don't agree with the hate for Jose either as he's put in many good years for the team and should be remembered for as such and not all the other petty stuff that are highly insignificant.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

The negativity and anger is so disheartening to see.

This team gave us an unforgettable wildcard win, followed by a sweep of the Rangers in a series everyone was salivating over - including another extremely memorable walk off win.

We made the final 4, and in a short series (yes, 7 games is still short in comparison to 162 game season) we got beat by a team that played better in 4 of the 5 games.

If you're constantly negative and down on the team, eventually you're going to be right. Hope the journey was as fun for you guys as it was for me.

Agreed.

Losing is disappointing as always, but this team had another solid season and made it to the final 4 for the second year in a row.

No small accomplishment.

Plus, they didn't lose to a crappy team. That Indians team is stellar and going to be that way for quite a while it looks like.

And they were in every game too. Not like they got worked, just couldn't get the timely hits Cleveland did.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by 868904

Not in Game 5, but they were for the first few games.

You don't lose the series in one game.

Are you really arguing that Cleveland does not manufacture runs and relys solely on the long ball?

They didn't though !! They scored 50% of their runs off the HR.

2 off Napoli hits off the wall , and one from an error

There were only 3 other runs in 5 games !! Even the Davis run he hit into a fielders choice , stole 2nd and went to third on a wild pitch . Then a hit brought him home from Lindor that he would have scored on anyways .

So where is this manufacturing runs . I know it's great to praise other teams run manufacturing but it simply didn't happen

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

I would love for a Votto trade and sign an OF who can lead off . Not sure who is avail that fits that mold.

Then sign 2 quality bullpen arms

Votto has a ridiculous contract. Even if we had the assets to trade for him, I don't know if i'd want that contract. 8 more years at an average of around 23M a year (signed until he is 42). That's without even consideration that I believe I read he has some sort of social complex and doesn't like the limelight. Toronto would eat him up with something like that.

[Jason14h]

Votto has a ridiculous contract. Even if we had the assets to trade for him, I don't know if i'd want that contract. 8 more years at an average of around 23M a year (signed until he is 42). That's without even consideration that I believe I read he has some sort of social complex and doesn't like the limelight. Toronto would eat him up with something like that.

I'm thinking the assets would be minimal as Cincy wants out from the contract. Only reason he may be available. Didn't know about the social complex.

[automaton 3]

Cleveland has a really good team. Their bullpen in particular was dynamite.

Would have been great to see the Jays in the WS, but Cleveland was the better team this week.

Great season for the Jays. Hope they can keep EE.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

They didn't though !! They scored 50% of their runs off the HR.

2 off Napoli hits off the wall , and one from an error

There were only 3 other runs in 5 games !! Even the Davis run he hit into a fielders choice , stole 2nd and went to third on a wild pitch . Then a hit brought him home from Lindor that he would have scored on anyways .

So where is this manufacturing runs . I know it's great to praise other teams run manufacturing but it simply didn't happen

That's way too simplistic of a way to look at it. You don't think having a guy at the plate that can slap the ball to any part of the field or take you deep, or have a guy on base that can steal second doesn't change a pitcher's approach? Pitchers don't have to change their approach at all against the Jays. It's just lock and load, doesn't even matter if someone is on first with no outs.

[Jason14h]

That still doesn't mean they manufactored runs! Means they had a better approach!

[mrkajz44]

Both teams hitting was terrible: they both ended the series with a batting average below .200 and slugging under .550. I mean those are brutal batting numbers for both team.

Cleveland was just more lucky than the Jays in their hits were just a bit more timely than the Jays. That's how the baseball playoffs are, the teams are so close in ability, it mostly comes down to luck.

The real bright side to this is we have an excellent looking rotation going forward which is a small miracle considering all the prospects we traded away last year. I bet they are able to bring one of EE / Bautista back, and next year doesn't look so bad.