[News] Feaster and Weisbrod relieved of duties. Burke will hire a new GM

[TheDebaser]

For the record, who was mostly responsible for the 2011 draft? Weisbrod or Button?

That year is starting to look really good.

1)Sven Baertschi, 13th Overall
2)Markus Granlund, 45th Overall
2)Tyler Wotherspoon, 57th Overall
4)John Gaudreau, 104th Overall
6)Laurent Brossoit, 164th Overall

I think in the future we'll look back and be amazed that we picked all of these guys up in one draft.

[rollie619]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

For the record, who was mostly responsible for the 2011 draft? Weisbrod or Button?

That year is starting to look really good.

1)Sven Baertschi, 13th Overall
2)Markus Granlund, 45th Overall
2)Tyler Wotherspoon, 57th Overall
4)John Gaudreau, 104th Overall
6)Laurent Brossoit, 164th Overall

I think in the future we'll look back and be amazed that we picked all of these guys up in one draft.

Button

[getbak]

Weisbrod was still with the Bruins at the 2011 Draft.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by rollie619

Button

Which perhaps lends credence to the often mentioned, and always forgotten, theory that perhaps Button actually has an inkling of how to scout, but was not always listened to in the past. Which may explain why he continually survives management changes.

I know nothing about scouting, but figure that teams must keep records of their "lists" from previous years so that they can compare how players turned out compared to how the scouts forecast them. I know that I would. Seems like the best ways to refine and measure the quality of your scouting. Maybe Buttons historic lists aren't so bad?

[Mr.Coffee]

Personally I've never bought much into what a draft is or isn't, and I think that it pretty much the majority of the time comes down to development unless it's a generational talent like Crosby.

But even then... I still have faith that the Flames may have squashed what he became.

It's how a team develops a guy in my mind. The difference in skill for a lot of these guys is usually pretty small outside of the top 5 picks. Everyone can play the game at an elite level but can everyone learn the work ethic, determination, bulk up properly, practice enough, etc. etc. to get to that next level and make an impact at that next level. And does the organization put these people into jobs that they can succeed.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by TheDebaser

For the record, who was mostly responsible for the 2011 draft? Weisbrod or Button?

That year is starting to look really good.

1)Sven Baertschi, 13th Overall
2)Markus Granlund, 45th Overall
2)Tyler Wotherspoon, 57th Overall
4)John Gaudreau, 104th Overall
6)Laurent Brossoit, 164th Overall

I think in the future we'll look back and be amazed that we picked all of these guys up in one draft.

And to Burke except for Brossoit, there might be on description that sticks out to describe that draft list: "undersized"

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Personally I've never bought much into what a draft is or isn't, and I think that it pretty much the majority of the time comes down to development unless it's a generational talent like Crosby.

I don't share that idea. While I think an NHL team can ruin a prospect's development, I think you can only do so much to help a player develop. There are plenty of players who end up being very close to NHL ready by the time they turned pro. Sure it's still partly development, but you got to question how much of a role an NHL team played in the development of prospects who were developing in juniors, college, or Europe. It's more of a "do no harm" situation.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

You can't discount what he did to get the #2 overall in that draft though to get both the Sedins.

That was a bit of a work of art, especially when you look at how the rest of that draft turned out in the long term.

http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2010/1...ed-the-sedins/

I'm going to give credit to Burke for pulling that off, but I think it also needs some context. The Canucks held the 3rd overall pick and once Burke acquired the 4th overall pick Burke declared that nobody was leaving the draft with both Sedins. Now logically speaking, how can Burke declare that when it's possible for some team to acquire both the first and second round pick and draft both Sedins? The reason is that Stefan and Brendl were considered the top two picks in the draft by most teams and Burke was able to draft the Sedins because of the belief that no team was crazy enough to draft the Sedins and bypass both Stefan and Brendl. Certainly neither Atlanta nor Tampa Bay were going to make a deal with each other so that one of those two teams end up drafting the Sedins. That's why the order of the draft didn't matter. Atlanta wanted to draft 1st overall for the publicity and Feaster was willing to trade down to #4 because he was guaranteed that Brendl would be there so could continue trading down.

Again, it's not to take credit away from Burke who stole the spotlight by wheeling and dealing his way to drafting both the Sedins. But Burke fully acknowledges that he was able to wheel and deal because he possessed a high pick.

Another thing to put into context is that I really don't think the Sedins would have developed into stars if the NHL didn't change the rules and cut down on the clutching and grabbing.

Originally Posted by getbak

He also ran the 2005 draft for Anaheim. Not that it was much greater overall, but Bobby Ryan was by far the best player he drafted for the Ducks.

Burke has absolutely nailed his top 3 picks. Burke seems to do pretty well when given a top 10 pick.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It is really funny then that he went out and criticized the Flames for their drafting, when the Flames have arguably done a better job over the last while. I actually thought he had better drafts in Vancouver and Anaheim.

....

What terrifies me is when I heard Burke say at his press conference when he got hired that he is looking to change the scouting department. I hope he comes in and isn't a 'bully'. I hope he listens to what Todd Button has to say, and just adds to the scouting team.

Good points. I mentioned this in another thread, but Burke has always brought in his own guys, but to the best of my knowledge, he's never fired anyone from the management team he inherited or his head/chief scout. This is really the first time Burke came in cleaned house like that. Because of this it's kind of hard to predict whether Button would be fired. History suggest Button will keep his job, but Burke might have other plans for his current NHL stop.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What would be at least partially helpful is to figure out year-to-year how many full-time and part-time scouts were employed by the Flames since Button came aboard. This could really explain the lack of talent drafted over-all - and Button did get some hits definitely - Saprykin as mentioned earlier, Stillman (I believe he drafted Stillman, right?), Lombo, and others. It wasn't 'zero', but it was definitely horrible.

I really believe that the best scouting teams in the NHL employ not only good scouts, but more scouts than other teams. In some cases you will see a smaller scouting staff with one good person that seems to make a world of difference (NYI about 5 years ago, for instance), but more often than not the smaller scouting staffed teams really end up getting their ROI.

It seems the draft has been trending upwards. Do you then fire Button because he used to be incompetent, or didn't get enough positive results years ago, or do you keep him on board because it looks like it is improving? I say you keep him around and add to him. Maybe hire an AGM that is a former Scouting Director with a proven track record (though I would assume that would be the new GM's call).

Stillman was drafted 21 years ago. Before button's time.

Again, you will not find a single organization that has had less impactful drafts over the same period of time. It really is that horrific.

I remember checking a while back, of his draft picks only 3 of them had 20 goal seasons. Lombardi (1), Kobasew (3), Phanuef (1). Every other organization I checked had more offensive production by a country mile, usually from just a single player.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by devo22

true, but they hit a few homeruns before Toews/Kane ... those were the franchise players to finish the rebuild. They had drafted a whole core around them in the years before:

2002 1st round, 21st overall - D Anton Babchuk
2002 2nd round, 54th overall - D Duncan Keith
2002 5th round, 156th overall - D James Wisniewski
2002 9th round, 282nd overall - F Adam Burish
2003 1st round, 14th overall - D Brent Seabrook
2003 2nd round, 52nd overall - G Corey Crawford
2003 8th round, 245th overall - D/F Dustin Byfuglien
2004 1st round, 3rd overall - D Cam Barker
2004 2nd round, 32nd overall - F Dave Bolland
2004 2nd round, 41st overall - F Bryan Bickell
2004 7th round, 214th overall - F Troy Brouwer
2005 4th round, 108th overall - D Niklas Hjalmarsson

Plus a few other guys with 100+ NHL games (Kukkonen, Porter, Dowell, Skille, Blunden)

that doesn't excuse them for blowing the 2006 and 2007 drafts except for Kane and Toews, but it's easier to absorb years like that when you hit homeruns with a couple 2nd round picks (Keith, Crawford, Bolland, Bickell) and found some gems in the later rounds (Byfuglien, Brouwer) in the years before.

The main thing the Blackhawks did in those years where they had success was acquire a million draft picks. There's been some research in football that most teams end up being drafting at a similar success level on a pick by pick basis but the better teams acquire more picks.

In 2004 where the Hawks landed a bunch of guys they drafted 17 guys (FOUR 2nd round selections). The draft was 9 rounds then, but they still just missed way more than they hit, they just had a ton of kicks at the can.

[Da_Chief]

Well a reason you're going to miss more is because you have so many prospect, where do you put them all? with contract restrictions you can only evaluate so many players turning pro. I'm sure a lot of good players have missed out because of that.

[sureLoss]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/12/19...calgary-flames

“I sent a text this morning to the coach at Boston College that said ‘Make sure your guys know we still love them,’” Burke told reporters last Thursday, only about an hour after announcing GM Jay Feaster and his sidekick, John Weisbrod, had been relieved of their duties.

Jerry York, the legendary bench boss for the Eagles, took it from there.

“Yeah, Coach York relayed the message to me and Bill one day when we were hanging out in the team lounge,” Gaudreau said this week.

“It’s pretty cool to get a text from (Burke) saying something about just two prospects.”

Added Arnold: “It makes you feel good that they’re thinking about you — especially with all that was going on, to know that he wanted to make sure a couple of his prospects weren’t going to be worried or anything, it’s something we really appreciate.”

Arnold and Gaudreau attended Tuesday’s battle between the Flames and the Boston Bruins at TD Bank Garden in Beantown, watching the action from the pressbox and getting a brief introduction to Burke during one of the intermissions.

After firing Feaster and Weisbrod last week, Burke made it clear he intends to assemble a “black and blue” bunch at the Saddledome, and it didn’t take long for word to travel back to the campus of Boston College.

Or to the Gaudreau residence in Carneys Point, N.J., for that matter.

“My parents were wondering about different things and trying to figure out who Mr. Burke was, since we were close to Jay Feaster and he was pretty good to me out in Calgary when I came to prospect camps,” Gaudreau said. “So I guess they watched the press conference and all that and said that they were nervous about how he’s so worried about big guys.

“But my dad thought it was pretty funny. It should be a good thing for the Flames.”

[Iggy3x]

On Gaudreau's father's comment - hopefully he sees that bigger players will be able to protect Jonny better and allow him more space to make plays.

It is good to see that Feaster seemed to have good relationships with our prospects. Now it is up to Burke to maintain and strengthen those relationships.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The main thing the Blackhawks did in those years where they had success was acquire a million draft picks. There's been some research in football that most teams end up being drafting at a similar success level on a pick by pick basis but the better teams acquire more picks.

In 2004 where the Hawks landed a bunch of guys they drafted 17 guys (FOUR 2nd round selections). The draft was 9 rounds then, but they still just missed way more than they hit, they just had a ton of kicks at the can.

I think this is a good philosophy. Get as many draft picks as you can reasonably get (best to maximize the first three rounds).

More kicks at the can means greater odds that one of your prospects will hit.

The NHL draft is difficult. It's not quite the crap-shoot that MLB's draft is, but it's far worse to project than at the junior level.

Build from within, and add pieces as you go. If you have a number of prospects you also have more value to trade to fill holes. Plus in a cap world, you're not shelling out millions for a mid-level guy whose role can be filled with an upcoming prospect.

[sureLoss]

Wes Gilbertson ‏@SUNGilbertson 2m
Brian Burke: #Flames have received permission to talk to one GM candidate and have had "exploratory discussions" with a couple other teams.

Wes Gilbertson ‏@SUNGilbertson 1m
Burke has yet to interview any candidates. If he gets permission to talk to every candidate he's hoping for, shortlist will be 3-6 people.

Wes Gilbertson ‏@SUNGilbertson 49s
Also, #Flames Brian Burke says if permission is not granted, he may be willing to wait until summer to interview a potential candidate.

[nik-]

You gotta think that Futa must be high on his list.

[FBI]

Willing to wait for summer to interview candidates.. That sounds like a good excuse to stay on as acting GM..

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by FBI

Willing to wait for summer to interview candidates.. That sounds like a good excuse to stay on as acting GM..

Or a very reasonable amount of time to hire the right person for the next 5+ years.

[cral12]

THW's Ryan Pike takes a look at the candidates:

"7 Candidates For Calgary’s New General Manager"

[Da_Chief]

Did he send the same message to the coach at Providence, Yale, Colgate, Michigan State?

I'd pretty pissed if I was one of those guys at those other schools.

I know this is only for Gaudreau, so he doesn't walk on us but same can be said about Agostino too right now.