[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Would Vegas have even wanted Andersson at this time last season? They still had Pietrangelo on RD back then. And aside from adding Reilly Smith, they stayed pat all season.

I am definitely not implying Vegas. Aside from the NTC, there would have been many more teams in a cap-stagnant environment interested in his sweetheart deal.

[Monahammer]

7 months ago:
"Monahammer is wrong, he is worth way more than a 2nd round pick and prospect!!" "What an idiot!" "Go back to Edmonton!"

Today:
"we couldn't possibly have traded him 7 months ago, he was worth less than now!"

Alright guys!

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Super interesting on both those. I mean the markets change every year, so not sure how valid these older trades for comparison point. A 2017 trade might as well be a 2005 trade IMO, but I buy the relevance on 2023 trade.

Funny thing, despite the above, looks like the return in both cases was 1st and two seconds. The Flames got a 1st, a 2nd + 2 other assets.

If we use these trades as baseline, the issue is a lack of a second 2nd, vs the other assets? Giving I think Whitecloud likely has some value, it feels like the return we gave up last year is marginally better at most no? And given that’s the case, not sure how big a miss step it was to keep him given the team was in it to the last weekend last year.

The issue with the other trades as a baseline is the value of the picks moving. The Sens were giving up the 12th overall pick in the very next draft not a protected first 2 or 3 drafts from now and from a team that is and appears to be a contender moving forward. When the Flames traded for Hamilton the pick was locked in at 15 and when they traded for Hamonic they were coming off a playoff sweep and a year removed from a bottom 5 finish with zero protection on the picks

I remember people thinking the Hanifin pick had potential to be high but Vegas keeps adding pieces that keep them looking like contenders for now and years to come.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

The you won't mind if they call you one of "Conroy's ball coddling knob gobblers"? Neither are okay. Debate the point, not the poster or how you feel about their position. If you can't do that, take a long walk. It is very cathartic and will help you refocus.

The point has been debated to death, but they've been proven much too slow to grasp what's clearly not a retool.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Fair.

If it were a true rental, I would tend to agree.
I just don't buy its that at all sadly, its meant to look like that on the surface based on both the comments from Rasmus and Craig, but I think we know for the most part he'll be extending.

Hidden agenda/borderline tampering honestly.

Even if so, no other team offered more. There is no justification for being angry at Vegas - if they have an advantage with players, they should exploit it.

As for the return, Andersson wouldn't sign an extension - with anyone - therefore he's a rental, and this was the best return offered.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Super interesting on both those. I mean the markets change every year, so not sure how valid these older trades for comparison point. A 2017 trade might as well be a 2005 trade IMO, but I buy the relevance on 2023 trade.

Funny thing, despite the above, looks like the return in both cases was 1st and two seconds. The Flames got a 1st, a 2nd + 2 other assets.

If we use these trades as baseline, the issue is a lack of a second 2nd, vs the other assets? Giving I think Whitecloud likely has some value, it feels like the return we gave up last year is marginally better at most no? And given that’s the case, not sure how big a miss step it was to keep him given the team was in it to the last weekend last year.

Yeah, at best it was a trade of a chance to make the POs versus a marginally better return around the edges. And that's only if there was a trade to be made. Not every team wants a guy with term for their PO run - some want a rental. And I doubt it would have been Vegas calling.

The example being tossed around is Carlo. But that was Treliving and he tends to overpay. And is Fraser Minten really that big a deal?

The Avs got Charlie Coyle with a year and a half left and gave Mittelstadt, Zellers and a 2nd.

Luke Schenn was traded with 1.5 years left for a 2nd and a 4th.

Edmonton got Walman with 1.5 for a 1st and Bergland.

NYR paid a 3rd for Carson Soucy.

Florida got 5 years of Seth Jones (plus a 4th) for a 1st and Spenser Knight.

2 years ago Cam Fowler was traded with a year and a half left for a 2027 2nd rounder and an undrafted prospect who's now in the ECHL.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The point has been debated to death, but they've been proven much too slow to grasp what's clearly not a retool.

It's not a retool, it's a rebiggle. Accept it and move on.

Frankly, I love the term rebiggle. Not only does it sound ridiculous but it has no definition so clearly open to interpretation. So those who want a retool, we're doing that. Those that want a rebuild, we're doing that. Those that want neither, we're rebiggling! Perfect for Flames fans as this team has not committed to anything since the 80s under Fletcher.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

7 months ago:
"Monahammer is wrong, he is worth way more than a 2nd round pick and prospect!!" "What an idiot!" "Go back to Edmonton!"

Today:
"we couldn't possibly have traded him 7 months ago, he was worth less than now!"

Alright guys!

Were you saying he was worth only a 2nd and a prospect a year ago? Because if so, you were wrong.

All the deals I can find from last year for a D with a year of term left are for lesser returns than this one. So maybe Andersson was worth less then than now.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Yeah I give Vegas their due because they embody that bold "God hates a coward" mentality with their moves. They make no bones about saying well this is a nice guy on a good contract, we can't trade him. No, they say he's not good enough to play the role we need, and we are going to upgrade on this guy. They don't fall in love with the person. They just try and make their team better.

Florida has done similar.

Winning teams don't give special treatment to players just cause they know them well. They have a bar they're trying to reach and trades will be made if current players aren't able to play up to where they need them to.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Icon

The more time I've had to mull this over the less I like the trade.

This is Rasmus for magic beans, and Whitecloud, who either you flip for a mid round pick or ends up leaving as a free agent in a couple summers.

Yes, it's possible the picks turn into something. But would have much rather had one first or second and a prospect who already looked like he could fill Rasmus' shoes or another impact role a little earlier in the future than these picks MIGHT do.

If this was the best offer right now, should have continued to wait. What was the urgency to move him in January for this return?

Wasn't Andersson always going to be traded for magic beans?

If a prospect becomes can't miss you don't trade him.
So you trade futures for an expiring contract.

Not sure how this trade is any different than most that are done with players headed to UFA status.

Even a signed Andersson was going to go for a contract (Lohrei) and magic beans (Bruins pick, prospect in Poitras).

Why is the Vegas pick, another 2nd pick, a contract player, and a C prospect any more magic beans than other deals?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am definitely not implying Vegas. Aside from the NTC, there would have been many more teams in a cap-stagnant environment interested in his sweetheart deal.

Well, they didn't seem to make any moves to get an Andersson equivalent, and the few that acquired D with term gave worse compensation than this trade.

Last year wasn't a cap stagnant environment. It went way up for 2024-25.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Even if so, no other team offered more. There is no justification for being angry at Vegas - if they have an advantage with players, they should exploit it.

As for the return, Andersson wouldn't sign an extension - with anyone - therefore he's a rental, and this was the best return offered.

Well thats the thing, the bolded is not true.

Other teams did offer more, which is why Craig gave a handful of teams the ability to negotiate with Rasmus's camp to try and work out a sign and trade based on his request.
They asked to be able to negotiate with these teams because he was willing to see what was out there.
Vegas was always interested, but their offer wasn't as good because they knew they could likely work out an extension after the fact (they didn't want CGY's help in the sign + trade)
This is why Craig literally said he wouldn't give permission for Rasmus's camp to speak to VGK.

Then at the 11th hour, sometime after VGK media leaked they were willing to make the trade with no pre-negotiate contract in place, Andersson's camp changed their tune to "never mind, we're not going to be signing any pre-extensions" this is the part I dislike.

Yep, he had to be traded as a rental.
But not a true rental, its a pre-frabricated "rental" which eliminated 3-4 other better offers and gave Vegas the golden ticket once again.

*I'll add I'm not mad at anyone or anything, I fully agree we got the best we could and its not a terrible return but the shady coincidences that a LOT of media are alluding to this morning and last night when it broke even are what I have the issue with*

[Lewis_D]

I voted for modest loss yesterday, but that was more a gut reaction on this return vs the other rumoured packages from other teams. But feels more like a break even return after sleeping on it.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Whitecloud, will he be part of the group going forward or will they flip him in coming weeks and his Calgary tenure will become a trivia question?

[Jiggy]

Connie probably talking to CP in this quote

“I know a lot of people will say, ‘Hey, I saw online … ’ ” Conroy said. “There were a lot of skill players whose names were out there, but that’s not always reality.

“People will say to me, ‘Hey, why don’t you get this guy or get that guy?’ Well, some of those guys aren’t available. You have to weigh the options of what is available and what is best for the team moving forward. That’s what we did today.”

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That player got a 1st and Fraser Minten

This is Whitecloud



There is a perfect recent comparable for Whitecloud right in front of us. Big physical RH defensive dmen always have more value than you'd expect.

Hopefully they can and do flip him then. I’m not convinced Conroy will flip him with term remaining on his contract, that hasn’t been his MO twice now, but we’ll see.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

7 months ago:
"Monahammer is wrong, he is worth way more than a 2nd round pick and prospect!!" "What an idiot!" "Go back to Edmonton!"

Today:
"we couldn't possibly have traded him 7 months ago, he was worth less than now!"

Alright guys!

It’s sure weird to brag about being wrong…

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Hopefully they can and do flip him then. I’m not convinced Conroy will flip him with term remaining on his contract, that hasn’t been his MO twice now, but we’ll see.

If it’s true he was frustrated with how this trade progressed over the weekend after working on trades based on extensions, I hope Conroy is more eager to trade players with term remaining so that extensions are not even a factor in trade discussions.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

I voted "modest win"

Last year, Andersson wouldn't have fetched the same return. In my opinion. It was a bad year for him. He was not playing well. He did his job and improved his value over the course of the year. Flames got their price and a legitimate NHL RHD. Those are coveted. For the tank crowd, even though Whitecloud is a fine dman, we downgraded our defense and team. All picks are magic beans. No one can know if these picks are good or bad. They will later in their respective rounds, therefore the odds are lower, but we were never getting a high first round pick for Andersson. All of this is likely repeated somewhere within all the discussion on this trade. I have no expectations for Wiebe.

It will be interesting to see if he does go to market. Vegas has $5.1MM plus $8.8MM in LTIR money to sign 5 players next year, including Andersson and Dorofeyev. They currently don't have enough. They seem to always find a way though.

[PeteMoss]

From Gemini - YouTube summary of the 32 thoughts podcast on the other offers out here:

The discussions on other teams' offers for Rasmus Andersson highlighted that Boston was initially the frontrunner (4:58), with a belief that they could secure a deal and an extension for Andersson. The proposed offer from Boston was believed to include Mason Lohrei and a 2027 first-round pick (22:50). However, the situation changed when Andersson's representative stated that he was not willing to sign an extension with any team at that time, which effectively took Boston out of the running (6:12-6:47).

It was also noted that there were rumors about Boston's offer including Toronto's 2026 first-round pick, but this was denied by multiple sources, suggesting it was likely one of Boston's two 2027 first-round picks instead (6:51-7:49).

Toronto also pushed for Andersson, but it was thought that their final offer couldn't beat what Vegas put on the table (12:14-12:22). Dallas got "a little more into it at the end" but was never considered the favorite (12:22-12:38). Detroit was rumored to be interested, but the hosts doubted this, especially since Steve Yzerman, Detroit's general manager, wasn't willing to trade Danielson, a key prospect, without an extension for Andersson, which wasn't on the table

He also says that heard that Detroit was not going to trade Donaldson at all.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by stemit14

If it’s true he was frustrated with how this trade progressed over the weekend after working on trades based on extensions, I hope Conroy is more eager to trade players with term remaining so that extensions are not even a factor in trade discussions.

Ideally, yes. Trade every player you cannot extend or don’t want in their UFA -1 year.

Takes control back, at least to one extent, and pushes the agents, tampering (soft or hard) out of the way.

And yes, you’ll probably get less…arguably.