[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Blame the dumb ass flames franchise and Andersson. He’s as bad as hanafin in the end. F ‘em hope they never ever ever win a cup in Vegas or anywhere else.

Some teams reshape their franchise in these types of moments. Flames just know how to all leverage. It’s a truly loser franchise.

Rasmus wasn't going to sign an extension with anybody. He is purely a rental at this point, even if he does sign with Vegas after the season.

So a decent, but not elite d-man who is purely a rental.

What kind of franchise-altering return did you expect Conroy to get?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Firstly, a guy like Whitecloud is only worth anything if a team covets and targets him. Otherwise, I think he's closer to waiver fodder than trade deadline asset.

Whitecloud, at the moment of the trade, led the Vegas Golden Knights in even-strength time on ice. He's not waiver fodder.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

I think if someone offers a 2nd for Whitecloud, you take that and run. That's what I hope we do, at least

My thought is that they realize Parekh isn’t the immediate replacement for a top 4 rd. This is the replacement, until next year where they can trade him with basically no leverage.

They’re creating the playbook on middling returns of an expiring contract.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Blame the dumb ass flames franchise and Andersson. He’s as bad as hanafin in the end. F ‘em hope they never ever ever win a cup in Vegas or anywhere else.

Some teams reshape their franchise in these types of moments. Flames just know how to all leverage. It’s a truly loser franchise.

Yeah, I try not to call teams I cheer for loser franchises, but it is getting close to believing we will never be a winner.

I might need to just take a break from this team, I have never been more frustrated with management or ownership than over the past year.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

My thought is that they realize Parekh isn’t the immediate replacement for a top 4 rd. This is the replacement, until next year where they can trade him with basically no leverage.

What exactly would give them leverage in trading a player like Whitecloud? Seems to me you're crying over something that isn't even a possibility.

I agree, Whitecloud is probably a placeholder until Parekh is ready. You do have to ice a team in the meantime. A guy who can lead Vegas in even-strength ice time is a pretty cromulent placeholder.

[TheScorpion]

To me I see the ability for CGY to play Whitecloud more than he's ever played in his career over the next year or so and leverage that into a possible deadline deal. Dunno. Seems likely to me.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Rasmus wasn't going to sign an extension with anybody. He is purely a rental at this point, even if he does sign with Vegas after the season.

So a decent, but not elite d-man who is purely a rental.

What kind of franchise-altering return did you expect Conroy to get?

Trade him before all leverage is lost. Playoffs at any cost model is showing how stupid the franchise truly is.

Maybe trade players before you ‘have to’ . But they won’t.

Now with whitecloud why trade kadri or Coleman, we’re probably a wildcard team next year !!!!!!!!!!

[3thirty]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Yeah, I try not to call teams I cheer for loser franchises, but it is getting close to believing we will never be a winner.

I might need to just take a break from this team, I have never been more frustrated with management or ownership than over the past year.

Promise?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by AC

The biggest takeaway is that this is the way the trade market works for a smaller Canadian team. A pending UFA is available, and even with as much safe-guarding as possible by Conroy, that player still controls a massive amount of the trade because he can flat out say I'm going to free agency. Less confident teams will offer less as a result, or back out entirely.

It really shows the importance of a team in a market like Calgary to be early on decisions with major assets whenever possible. Less "We'll see how things play out. there's no urgency until they're in their final year of contract", and more hardline stances on where they're at as a team and with players.

"Does this player fit into our rebuild/biggle plans on his NEXT contract? Not really? Okay, he's 2.5 years left on the contract, let's action this in the coming year, get things rolling".

Anderssons play last year could have been a factor in waiting, but I seem to recall sources suggesting that while the Flames wouldn't add at the deadline, they would also not subtract because they wanted to do right by the players who were playing above expectations at the time. Those are the kind of decisions I want to see gone in a market like ours.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Is he solid though? Remember this is all while being on the best team in our division. The stats don’t agree he is. Either way, what a brutal day for Conroy


XGF% 48.0
RELXGF%. -7.3
CF%. 51.0
REL CF%. -0.7

He's absolutely solid! Tanev had terrible analytics as well before coming here. If you value quality defense, that's Whitecloud. I think he is a very good addition. Our puck moving is going to suffer a bit especially with 3 stay at home D inside the top 4, but both Parekh, and Brzustewicz are coming.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Trade him before all leverage is lost. Playoffs at any cost model is showing how stupid the franchise truly is.

What's stupid is looking at this year's team and thinking that was the result of trying to make the playoffs at any cost.

That isn't the model.

[Icon]

The more time I've had to mull this over the less I like the trade.

This is Rasmus for magic beans, and Whitecloud, who either you flip for a mid round pick or ends up leaving as a free agent in a couple summers.

Yes, it's possible the picks turn into something. But would have much rather had one first or second and a prospect who already looked like he could fill Rasmus' shoes or another impact role a little earlier in the future than these picks MIGHT do.

If this was the best offer right now, should have continued to wait. What was the urgency to move him in January for this return?

[Spurly]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Firstly, a guy like Whitecloud is only worth anything if a team covets and targets him. Otherwise, I think he's closer to waiver fodder than trade deadline asset. If he does get flipped his year, I think a team that targets him maybe offers a 3rd?

Secondly, I honestly think Conroy liked this player and targeted him, and I honestly don't think he will even be traded for anything.

The hopes of someone offering a 1st for this guy is pure fantasy.

Conroy, does like the guy a lot.
Being a throw in is being found money, what ever we get when ever we get it is a bonus.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Trade him before all leverage is lost. Playoffs at any cost model is showing how stupid the franchise truly is.

Maybe trade players before you ‘have to’ . But they won’t.

Now with whitecloud why trade kadri or Coleman, we’re probably a wildcard team next year !!!!!!!!!!

what evidence do you have that their goal is to make the playoffs next year.
Or for that matter that they are operating under a "playoffs at any cost" model?

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

To me I see the ability for CGY to play Whitecloud more than he's ever played in his career over the next year or so and leverage that into a possible deadline deal. Dunno. Seems likely to me.

Let me ask you this though, you are extremely knowledgeable on the team. You know how this ownership and management runs things generally.

Do you honestly think we are going to trade Whitecloud for a pick. Or is it more likely he becomes another "great vet, great culture guy". Because I think the latter is more likely.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Rasmus wasn't going to sign an extension with anybody. He is purely a rental at this point, even if he does sign with Vegas after the season.

So a decent, but not elite d-man who is purely a rental.

What kind of franchise-altering return did you expect Conroy to get?

I think that people wanted a young player to cheer for now, like the ones rumoured in the trade thread.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

My guess is (maybe hope) but is that Conroy

1) trades Coleman and one of the vet dmen this year for more picks and prospects.

2) works with Kadri in the offseason to move him for more picks and propsects

3) maybe uses some of the picks and prospects for a 24-25 year old center who is either under contract or has team control with 2nd/3rd line capabilities to fill the gap left by Kadri

4) trades another dman and one of Frost or Farabee for more picks and prospects next year.

Either way I don’t think the guy is done yet this season.

I think you have pretty much set out the blueprint over next 2 seasons before the new stadium opens.

Could see them keep Frost a bit longer until our young centers are more ready.

But Coleman, Kadri, Farabee, and at least 2 D vets are gone for more picks and a young center hockey trade before we open the stadium.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

That's my own hope as well. But there's no hurry. The team is worse with Whitecloud than it was with Andersson, so they can afford to play him for the time being. Since the Olympics are obviously a non-factor for him, I'd like to see him moved by the deadline for another pick. That would make this whole trade tree a little more palatable.

On the other hand, if he stays, my wife gets to cheer for an Indigenous player for a while, so for me personally that's a mitigating factor.

That’s cool, hopefully it can make her happy. It doesn’t resonate for me personally, but to each their own.

If they move him it would need to be for significant assets to make up for this mess. Andersson was our best shot at a top end center prospect and we ended up with more defencemen and a low end first round pick along with a 2nd.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

Yeah, I try not to call teams I cheer for loser franchises, but it is getting close to believing we will never be a winner.

I might need to just take a break from this team, I have never been more frustrated with management or ownership than over the past year.

The team is being more long-term focused than ever before.
I get you think they should be even MORE long-term focused, but if this is the most you've ever been frustrated, you must be so young that you missed some of the truly dark times.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

He's absolutely solid! Tanev had terrible analytics as well before coming here. If you value quality defense, that's Whitecloud.

This was definitely worth saying. Analytics are at their worst in assessing the quality of defensive defencemen, because so much depends on the performance of their teammates that it's impossible to fully separate the signal from the noise. It's the one place where the eye test is still markedly superior to the numerical tools.

Coaches know when a player is good defensively and when he isn't. Bruce Cassidy, who is no dummy, put Whitecloud out for more even-strength minutes than any other D on the team this season. He certainly didn't do that because of Whitecloud's offensive prowess.