The Dark Knight Rises: July 20, 2012

[Russic]

I have a buddy that reminds me a lot of some of the posters in this thread. Watching any movie with him is excruciating. Regardless of how good the movie is he gets caught up on plot holes and is unable to get over them. He stopped watching breaking bad after one episode because something bugged him. It's like he has a disorder.

It is a little bit killjoyish to be honest. I understand that it's nothing more than gentle debate, but over-complaining about plot points does come off as Debby Downerism. There's nothing wrong with wanting the movies to make sense, but that's how it's taken by many people.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Russic

I have a buddy that reminds me a lot of some of the posters in this thread. Watching any movie with him is excruciating. Regardless of how good the movie is he gets caught up on plot holes and is unable to get over them. He stopped watching breaking bad after one episode because something bugged him. It's like he has a disorder.

I'm really sounding like a broken record here, but who said anyone had a problem with the film?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Just for a little perspective. I listened to Kevin Smith's podcasts over the weekend. It's 2 parts from Smodcast and Fatman on Batman.

Basically it is 3 hours of him recounting the film to his buddy Scott Mosier, and Mosier hadn't seen TDKR.

Smith covers so many things that I didn't that are silly. Little things that just make you go "really?". It isn't meant, as many in this thread seem to interpret it, as some sort of insult towards your taste or the movie. Nobody likes it when things they like are picked apart.

But seriously listen to the podcast. You'll hear him go from "that part was ######ed" to literally being in tears 5 minutes later when he describes the cafe scene. All in all Smith gives it nothing short of a monumentally positive review. Same thing when I trashed TDK a couple of pages back. Pointing out all of the logical inconsistencies doesn't ruin the movie for me. It just means that I can't try to appreciate the film for its consistent story telling. Instead I enjoy the cinematography, the dialogue, acting, action, themes of the film. I can even enjoy the over arching story that Nolan was trying to tell. It's just fruitless to try and make perfect sense out of the film.

What I think actually causes problems is when people try to justify some of the inconsistencies. You're better off just ignoring them then trying to explain them.

Why did Batman paint the huge logo if it was a waste of time? Who cares? Yes I agree that's a bit silly but the worst thing you can do is look for some sort of justification. Same with the police, stock exchange, his knees and all the other silly little things. But that doesn't mean you have to pretend they don't exist.

[jammies]

Personally I nitpick because I find it so hard to understand WHY there are stupid plot-holes in movies, especially when they take you out of the movie by forcing you out of movie-watching mode into "wtf?".

In this one, as soon as they started talking about Bruce Wayne not wanting to go ahead with the fusion reactor because it could be weaponized, all suspension of disbelief was destroyed. Fusion bombs? Really? Like the ones they invented way back in the 1950's? A little late to be worrying about that cat escaping the bag and crapping on the carpet. And the whole concept that the core could be removed and it would then become a timebomb - utterly stupid.

There is a difference between plausibly real and logical - I don't care if the movie could ever really happen, as long as it has its own internal logic. As in, given that Batman exists, tell me a story where the consequences of that follow a pattern that is consistent and believable *within its own context*. Flying batmobiles? Bullet-proof suits? Secret batcave behind a waterfall? Sure! Stock manipulation by breaking into a stock exchange and shooting people (uh, duh, ever hear of hacking?)? Experimental fusion reactors built under a major city? Cell calls being traced and SWAT teams dispatched to a location in under 15 seconds? NO!

[Tinordi]

I actually didn't have a huge problem with all the plot holes and logical inconsistencies. I had a problem with the basic film making of the movie and the pacing of the story. Both were either mediocre or bad.

[rayne008]

Originally Posted by jammies

Personally I nitpick because I find it so hard to understand WHY there are stupid plot-holes in movies, especially when they take you out of the movie by forcing you out of movie-watching mode into "wtf?".

In this one, as soon as they started talking about Bruce Wayne not wanting to go ahead with the fusion reactor because it could be weaponized, all suspension of disbelief was destroyed. Fusion bombs? Really? Like the ones they invented way back in the 1950's? A little late to be worrying about that cat escaping the bag and crapping on the carpet. And the whole concept that the core could be removed and it would then become a timebomb - utterly stupid.

There is a difference between plausibly real and logical - I don't care if the movie could ever really happen, as long as it has its own internal logic. As in, given that Batman exists, tell me a story where the consequences of that follow a pattern that is consistent and believable *within its own context*. Flying batmobiles? Bullet-proof suits? Secret batcave behind a waterfall? Sure! Stock manipulation by breaking into a stock exchange and shooting people (uh, duh, ever hear of hacking?)? Experimental fusion reactors built under a major city? Cell calls being traced and SWAT teams dispatched to a location in under 15 seconds? NO!

Finally say it on the weekend, and this sums it up for me...

The whole 5 month city under siege, no hassle travel from the middle east without money or paper work, the stock market circus, and the whole police march into a slaughter of assault rifles where there would be hundreds of casualties did take something away from the overall enjoyment of the movie.

And how many times was the freedom tower shown in the background of the city shots?

I guess I don't see why these scenes are here, every point that people are questioning could have easily been handled in a much more realistic and believable way.

I enjoy these types of movies, but came out of the theater disappointed, a very different feeling than when I left The Avengers

[trackercowe]

I think people are forgetting that Bruce Wayne is one of the smartest human beings on the planet (up there with Luthor and a few others). I am pretty sure he is more than capable and has the intellectual know-how to pretty much get anything done, including getting from the Middle East back to Gotham in a short amount of time. He isn't just a human being only capable of ordinary feats.

In Batman Begins we saw him travel throughout the world without using any of his family resources. This is also before he trained with the League of Shadows, and became Batman. Since that time he has only grew his knowledge and his wisdom, so obviously he is even more capable than in Begins.

I agree that there should have been a scene of him finding a way back into Gotham, but the movie was already pushing 3 hours, so maybe it was cut due to time constraints? But, even considering all that I firmly believe Bruce Wayne of all the people in the world would have no problem finding a way back into Gotham. He probably has many secret entrances built in throughout the city knowing they may be useful some day.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Here is a semi-review that sums up some things that I love about the trilogy. Once again, most of Nolan's faults are in the details, not the big picture stuff. It's more about Gotham as a whole than just about the film so it covers the other films.

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=65236

[zamler]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

I think people are forgetting that Bruce Wayne is one of the smartest human beings on the planet (up there with Luthor and a few others). I am pretty sure he is more than capable and has the intellectual know-how to pretty much get anything done, including getting from the Middle East back to Gotham in a short amount of time. He isn't just a human being only capable of ordinary feats.

HAHA oh man, the most convenient excuse of all time. Well, Bruce Wayne is the smartest man on earth, so of course he pulled off the impossible. Except when he doesn't pull off the impossible and ends up broke, in prison and whole host of other stuff. So maybe he's not as smart as you say he is, or he would not have allowed himself to get into the those situations in the first place. But wait, he had to get into those quandaries or there would be no movie, right?

One thing I've realize about this film is there is a certain percentage of people that will defend the movie to the death and refuse to admit it is anything but a masterpiece. I enjoyed it, but the more I thought about things the more I've come to realize the movie was just not that great, it had way, way too many plot holes, lapses in logic and other elements that were completely unbelievable or plausible in any context.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by freakinsaprikin

A movie about a guy that dresses up as a bat to fight crime and your debating the plausibility of the stock fraud and large battle scenes?

We're a bunch of guys debating a comic book movie on a hockey internet message board.

Yes we're debating the merits of stock market fraud in the movie, you know we're all nerds right?

[WetCoast]

You mean batman wasn't a documentary?!?!?!

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Already put this in the funny pics thread but it should be here to. Didn't check for data. Hope not.

[SebC]

This thread has inspired me to make a graph in MSPaint.

[Mass_nerder]

Finally saw the movie...smiling like an idiot.
Epic.

[Sainters7]

I'm late to the party, but finally saw it yesterday. I really enjoyed it, so much so that afterwards I went home & watched TDK again. It definitely had its holes (as mentioned in this thread), and I thought the very end was kinda cheesy, like him ending up with Catwoman in Florence like Alfred always hoped. But over-all I felt it carried its weight with the rest of the trilogy very well.

As mentioned, also enjoyed the cameos, like Ra's al Ghul & Scarecrow (just one bit about the exile part though; does no-one realize you're supposed to CRAWL across potentially thinner ice??). I'm interested to see what they do with Blake, as clearly its been left open for a potential sequel. I'd actually like to see him in that role, its funny how much I hated him in 3rd Rock compared to how much I enjoy him as an actor now.

EDIT: Regarding Man of Steel, was also disappointed in no preview of it in the IMAX. Finally saw it on Youtube, man I'm pumped for that. Love the darker tone, I'm sure Snyder/Nolan won't be afraid to veer from the Reeves era Superman like Singer clearly was.

[GreenLantern]

I think The Dark Knight angle has been done enough now, I would like to see someone take on a more classic role of Batman.. silver age almost, not quite Adam West silver age but somewhere inbetween.

It'd be neat to see a Batman set in the 60's or 70's..

[Lobotroth]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

I think The Dark Knight angle has been done enough now, I would like to see someone take on a more classic role of Batman.. silver age almost, not quite Adam West silver age but somewhere inbetween.

It'd be neat to see a Batman set in the 60's or 70's..

Something like this?

http://io9.com/5911595/meet-the-enti...ity?tag=batman

[Coach]

Went and saw it for the 2nd time last night in IMAX. It was defintiely at least as good the second time around and there was some little things I didn't notice before. I definitely caught the vast majority of what Bane said this time (although I didn't miss much the last time), but the speech about Dent outside the prison still has some difficult parts.

All the hints leading up to the end I defintiely missed the first time (probably because it was almost 4 in the morning). The lawyers talking about the missing pearls in Bruce Waynes estate to reference Selina was one of them. I also missed the new Bat-signal for Gordon which was nice for me because I left last time under the impression that Gordon still thought him to be dead, and I'm a big fan of Oldman's Gordon. His face when he saw the light was priceless.

I really think Oldman has definitely flown under the radar the whole series in the Shadows of Ledger, Freeman and Caine as supporting characters. I thought he deserved an Oscar nomination for TDK alongside Ledger. Just a wonderful actor who created a sympathetic and strong character.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Lobotroth

Something like this?

http://io9.com/5911595/meet-the-enti...ity?tag=batman

That would be really cool to follow up.... Batman without the fame and wealth.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I also missed the new Bat-signal for Gordon which was nice for me because I left last time under the impression that Gordon still thought him to be dead, and I'm a big fan of Oldman's Gordon. His face when he saw the light was priceless.

Gordon may still think the original (Bruce Wayne) Batman is dead. The new bat-signal could be for Blake's Batman.