The Dark Knight Rises: July 20, 2012

[vektor]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Every fifteen minutes? Please. I wonder sometimes how some of you enjoy movies. If this is how vigorously you dissect the plotline of every movie you see why even goto them at all? Was it perfect? No, but at the end of the day its Batman. And its about as realistic as it'll get.

Because we have logical brains. I'm a complete cinephile and I've seen thousands of movies, when you see enough you can see there are formulas and different qualities to a movie.

I enjoyed the hell out of TDKR, it had the best sound in any movie I've ever seen, the way the drums in the music were so clear and had so much bass made it like no other movie, it seemed more like an experience kind of movie than something to be remembered for its fascinating story. The action sequences were amazing and so was the imagery. The characters were interesting as well, the twist at the end was awsome. Just because we critique a movie doesn't mean we didn't enjoy the hell out of it, I'm going to go see it again. A movie with the hype surrounding it like TKDR deserves to be critiqued because of how high it's held. There were some terrible plot holes and horribly paced and explained sequences, doesn't mean the strengths didn't clearly overshadow them

[Hack&Lube]

I don't know why you guys are arguing about this when there are much more blatant and un-explained issues with the plot to argue about.

Lucius said himself in the movie that they could prove fraud and get his money and position back but that would take time. That solves this whole issue.

For now, public suspicion is that eccentric playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne used the event to gamble on the stock market and lost. The company stock has plummeted and with that reason itself the lack of public confidence in Bruce Wayne's decision making abilities to manage his company and finances, the board has enough rationale to oust Wayne for the time being.

[Hack&Lube]

You know what I was thinking about? When Gordon throws that flare and lights up the huge burning Bat-symbol on the bridge, did Bruce spend his entire afternoon painting that? Doesn't he have better things to do?

I know it's the whole symbol thing but only a few people with a limited view across the river would have seen that. It would have taken less time to just rig up a new Bat-signal.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

You know what I was thinking about? When Gordon throws that flare and lights up the huge burning Bat-symbol on the bridge, did Bruce spend his entire afternoon painting that? Doesn't he have better things to do?

I know it's the whole symbol thing but only a few people with a limited view across the river would have seen that. It would have taken less time to just rig up a new Bat-signal.

He probably knew that he had the longest 11 minutes in cinematic history before the bomb would go off :P

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

You know what I was thinking about? When Gordon throws that flare and lights up the huge burning Bat-symbol on the bridge, did Bruce spend his entire afternoon painting that? Doesn't he have better things to do?

I know it's the whole symbol thing but only a few people with a limited view across the river would have seen that. It would have taken less time to just rig up a new Bat-signal.

Yeah I think it would have been cooler if some citizens had done it or something.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

I don't know why you guys are arguing about this when there are much more blatant and un-explained issues with the plot to argue about.

Lucius said himself in the movie that they could prove fraud and get his money and position back but that would take time. That solves this whole issue.

For now, public suspicion is that eccentric playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne used the event to gamble on the stock market and lost. The company stock has plummeted and with that reason itself the lack of public confidence in Bruce Wayne's decision making abilities to manage his company and finances, the board has enough rationale to oust Wayne for the time being.

Why would that be public suspicion? That's my point.

Wayne and WE release a joint statement that they've obviously been the subject of a terrorist and that they're confident that they'll be cleared up shortly.

Their stock still takes a hit perhaps but Wayne just can't go buying any countries for the next two months.

Good idea to take away Wayne's wealth. The scenes were executed very well. However as Nolan often does he failed to connect the dots plausibly.

I still really liked the film. I was expecting a Nolan film and I got one.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Why would that be public suspicion? That's my point.

Wayne and WE release a joint statement that they've obviously been the subject of a terrorist and that they're confident that they'll be cleared up shortly.

Their stock still takes a hit perhaps but Wayne just can't go buying any countries for the next two months.

Good idea to take away Wayne's wealth. The scenes were executed very well. However as Nolan often does he failed to connect the dots plausibly.

I still really liked the film. I was expecting a Nolan film and I got one.

It is because Wayne has a reputation and people are going to see an official statement as an excuse or attempt by him to cover it up and get his money back...basically getting himself a bailout which ties into the whole subtle 1%/occupy subtext of the movie.

You're forgetting that Bruce Wayne spent years covering his tracks by creating a public persona as a rich playboy airhead and was constantly getting himself into the tabloids for his behavior. This isn't the first company who's stock has plummeted based on some kind of personal scandal involving the head of the company.

Seriously, the stock scam is this is the easiest part of the film to swallow. Bruce growing back all his missing cartilage? Escaping an atomic blast with almost no screen time to spare? Gotham not being screwed from radioactive fall-out for hundreds of years? The entire police force going into the sewers leaving almost no cops on the streets? The pit-prison with no guards that is easy to escape if the prisoners just use their brains and make some tools? A "clean-slate" program on a USB stick that cleans every record of you (what about paper copies?)... Yeah that I don't buy.

[vektor]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

It is because Wayne has a reputation and people are going to see an official statement as an excuse or attempt by him to cover it up and get his money back...basically getting himself a bailout which ties into the whole subtle 1%/occupy subtext of the movie.

You're forgetting that Bruce Wayne spent years covering his tracks by creating a public persona as a rich playboy airhead and was constantly getting himself into the tabloids for his behavior. This isn't the first company who's stock has plummeted based on some kind of personal scandal involving the head of the company.

Seriously, the stock scam is this is the easiest part of the film to swallow. Bruce growing back all his missing cartilage? Escaping an atomic blast with almost no screen time to spare? Gotham not being screwed from radioactive fall-out for hundreds of years? The entire police force going into the sewers leaving almost no cops on the streets? The pit-prison with no guards that is easy to escape if the prisoners just use their brains and make some tools? A "clean-slate" program on a USB stick that cleans every record of you (what about paper copies?)... Yeah that I don't buy.

This is just so insane. There is video evidence of Bane breaking into the trading room and shooting people, hacking onto computers with hundreds of witnesses. It is by far the least believable part of the film. The law states fraudulent transactions are instantly nullified, end of story. It doesn't take months to prove otherwise. The laws exist so exactly what happened in the movie could never happen, defrauding a billionaire doesn't happen by shooting up wall street.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

It's ####ing Batman, don't think so hard about it.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It's ####ing Batman, don't think so hard about it.

Exactly. The entire concept is ridiculous despite how hard you try to make it more realistic.

The series lost all plausibility to me anyway once Holmes was recast anyway. Recasting instantly breaks all suspension of disbelief. You just enjoy them once and not think too much.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by vektor

This is just so insane. There is video evidence of Bane breaking into the trading room and shooting people, hacking onto computers with hundreds of witnesses. It is by far the least believable part of the film. The law states fraudulent transactions are instantly nullified, end of story. It doesn't take months to prove otherwise. The laws exist so exactly what happened in the movie could never happen, defrauding a billionaire doesn't happen by shooting up wall street.

So? Nobody knows what Bane was actually up to in there. Even Lucius said in the film that it would take months to prove what really happened. To outsiders, it could look just as easily as Bruce (or any other wall-street opportunist for that matter) seeing the mayhem and seeing it as an opportunity to gamble on high risk trades and then being able to claim they were fraudulent trades if it went badly for them. It's all part of the greed angle of the film. Daggett & Bain could have easily made thousands of transactions that day or gotten others to make transactions as well to cover their tracks making the whole thing convoluted and hard to pin down. Ultimately, it's a comic book universe stock market. They don't have to follow any securities laws from real life as the movie doesn't really care for physics laws from real life either.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by vektor

This is just so insane. There is video evidence of Bane breaking into the trading room and shooting people, hacking onto computers with hundreds of witnesses. It is by far the least believable part of the film. The law states fraudulent transactions are instantly nullified, end of story. It doesn't take months to prove otherwise. The laws exist so exactly what happened in the movie could never happen, defrauding a billionaire doesn't happen by shooting up wall street.

Really? Think how many transactions they would have done in that time frame. They just didn't log onto e*trade and click buy jack-o-lantern futures to peak for January. To check every transaction made, from every computer, to verify any possible tampering, would take months.

Then you have to prove it in a court of law. There are very straight forward fraud cases that take months to process, look at the Nova Scotia MLA fraud scandals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Sc...penses_scandal it took 8 months to investigate.

These things take time to have the i's dotted and the t's crossed.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I didn't need to consult a cfa. I just have common sense.

I've already covered in great detail why all Nolan's movies are severely lacking previously in this thread.

On that note I'm not sure why it matters if I notice stupid parts of the movie.

Just because it was a superhero movie doesn't mean the plot or part of it should be nonexistent or nonsensical.

I sure hope you haven't watched the Avengers yet. You would seriously just have a heart attack in the theatre!

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Really? Think how many transactions they would have done in that time frame. They just didn't log onto e*trade and click buy jack-o-lantern futures to peak for January. To check every transaction made, from every computer, to verify any possible tampering, would take months.

Then you have to prove it in a court of law. There are very straight forward fraud cases that take months to process, look at the Nova Scotia MLA fraud scandals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_Sc...penses_scandal it took 8 months to investigate.

These things take time to have the i's dotted and the t's crossed.

Exactly, audits and investigations and trials take months to years. The Nortel and MCI/Worldcom stuff is still in the courts and it's been like 15 years since then.

[Hack&Lube]

If we really want to talk about stupid points from the film, how about this one?

When the cops are walking down the street with nothing but a few glocks and night sticks against Bain's heavily armed militia army, Batman arrives in his Bat but doesn't do anything but shoot his little EM knockout things onto the two Tumblers and then flies away letting the cops do a charge of the light brigade into a army of soldiers armed with fully automatic G36C assault rifles.

Fortunately for the cops, the army all have Stormtrooper aim and don't manage to hit anybody until the cops manage to close the gap and then they all start fighting hand to hand for some reason. If that played out like any battle in real life, you'd have a 1000 dead cops having to climb over the bodies of their comrades to get to the front lines.

That part of the film probably bugged me more than any other.

[freakinsaprikin]

Holy Geez! You guys know that the whole thing is fantasy right?

A movie about a guy that dresses up as a bat to fight crime and your debating the plausibility of the stock fraud and large battle scenes?

Little advise, sometimes it's okay to just let your self go and enjoy the ride. Save the detailed breakdown for why things suck for work, you'll be a much happier person.

Just my two cents.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It's ####ing Batman, don't think so hard about it.

The Nolan version of Batman went for a plausible, reality based setting. That's why the inconsistencies bother people I think, because most of what we experience is grounded. The logical errors take people out of the moment, at least it happened to me, several times in fact.

Nolan did not do his research very well for this film, there are some glaring errors.

[trackercowe]

Yeah it's really unfortunate Nolan didn't do his research on what would happen after a terrorist attack at the NYSE; that did happen last year as a matter of fact, correct?

It's common knowledge to know how actual events would play out.

[J pold]

Yeah even for me, resident movie hater, some of the nitpicking in this thread is a bit much. Honestly there are about 20 other qualms I have with the logic of the film ahead of the stock market robbery. In fact I really enjoyed that whole scene/sequence.

After seeing it again this weekend in a half full theatre, where all the hype and anticipation of opening night is gone I have to say it took a bit of a step down from my original review. Still my biggest complaint is Bruce’s return to Gotham after escaping the prison, we see him in a place, which given the aesthetics one could easily assume is the Middle East and seemingly the next day he goes from Desert on the other side of the planet to back in Gotham. Never mind Gotham is in lock down and no one is allowed on or off the island and yet he somehow manages to just stroll on. How did he even get back to the city in time? Oh call Alfred to came to pick him up in a private jet. Oh wait, he doesn’t have Alfred anymore. Well he must have called someone in Wayne Enterprises to come grab him. But oh that’s right, he’s freaking broke. Maybe he just flew commercial? Without a passport or wallet? Personally I would have preferred him break out of the prison a bit sooner and devoted sometime about a journey back to Gotham.

Still overall on the same level as the previous two films but without a doubt the weakest of the series.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by freakinsaprikin

Holy Geez! You guys know that the whole thing is fantasy right?

A movie about a guy that dresses up as a bat to fight crime and your debating the plausibility of the stock fraud and large battle scenes?

Little advise, sometimes it's okay to just let your self go and enjoy the ride. Save the detailed breakdown for why things suck for work, you'll be a much happier person.

Just my two cents.

I just don't understand why people who think about logical errors somehow are a bunch of killjoys.

I probably enjoyed and appreciated the films more than some people who aren't complaining. Just don't see why talking about the film with anything but "OMG Batman rules!!!" is viewed as some sort of life hating person.

And of course as per usual I feel compelled to point out that just because it is a fantasy/sci fi/superhero movie does not mean that a film all of a sudden doesn't need a plot. This is why we hate Michael Bay.

Whether I'm watching Half Baked, Shawshank or The Avengers I want the movie to make sense to me.

Thing is, I've already explained at length the issues I have with Nolan. He's never been big on his movies making a whole lot of sense. Generally they are just a bunch of major plot points loosely connected with illogical plot devices. I can watch a Nolan movie and forgive it because his movies are cool enough it is ok.