[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

I'm reading Dom Luszczyszyn, who writes

"Johnny Gaudreau's play going into UFA was far superior to Artemi Panarin’s during his run to free agency, and he comes in nearly $2 million cheaper. It boggles the mind, especially knowing that Calgary offered $10.5 million over eight seasons."

In other words, cap adjusted, he expected Johnny to fetch $11m-$13m per season. I think that Dom Luszczyszyn is a smart guy and it's plausible Gross and Gaudreau thus expected that Johnny would also get $11m-$13m per year from some team out east. This would allow Johnny to BOTH (a) Play out east and (b) make comparable or more money than the flames offered.

BUT...the offers in the $11m-$13m range never came to fruition.

Johnny still took the highest offer available from an US Eastern Conference team as a UFA which was 7 x $9.75. No other team beat that. The islanders were at $9. The devils were between $9-$10. Columbus beat them both.

That's what happened. Johnny wanted to be out east. But they also misjudged the market. And then they made the best of a bad situation, which was Columbus for 7 years at $9.75m.


That's what happened. In hindsight, does Johnny wish he took the $10.5m x 8 from Calgary? Maybe. Maybe Calgary + $15m over 8 years is better than Columbus. But that offer was no longer on the table as of this morning because the 8th year was gone.


This is the logical explanation of what happened.

LeBrun sort of confirms this in an article this morning

The New York Islanders showed interest but couldn’t create the cap room to get more seriously involved.

Philadelphia Flyers never really got involved.

Sources confirmed that the New Jersey Devils offered a seven-year deal, with the dollar amount somewhere “in the nines’. However, the Devils didn’t really hear back for a long time from agent Lewis Gross.

That’s because Gross was busy working on the best offer he got on this day: seven years and a $9.75 million U.S. AAV from the Columbus Blue Jackets.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Don't pile on djsFlames. It was my comment.

He's not my definition of a man. If that's narrow and ignorant, I accept that.

But just look at the last 48 hours.

It's been said here. He's lost money, lost term, lost legacy, lost a chance at a cup. He might lose more money because there's no signing bonus, no front loading. He just can't think for himself. He's immature.

Why do those things mean he can't think for himself? Might mean the exact opposite in fact, and my guess would be actually indicates that he was very much thinking for himself, because most people would not have given up that list of things, and his agent, certainly wouldn't have been pressuring him to give them up.

All that said, I was waking up this morning, trying to figure out why the fact he signed in Columbus, for less, has somehow made this sting a little less than earlier. I think the answer would be:

- It validates, that the Flames did everything in their power to get this done and what we put on the table was more than enough to get this done. The Flames did their part.

- Also, when I thought he was going closer to home, I think I also figured one of those teams would not only be getting to play back home, they were orgs he felt like were trending in the right direction for a cup. So essentially, I figured he kind of wanted everything, money, home and a chance to win. And him not choosing us meant he Calgary didn't fit multiple of those criteria.

Seeing him sign in Columbus, and knowing he could have signed in NJ, means my (and likely our thoughts) on what he really wanted weren't as close to accurate as thought.

I don't doubt he actually likes Columbus, or has heard good things about the org. But what it does make clear in my opinion is:

- His main motivation was absolutely location, and that definition of location was potentially much different than we thought. Maybe it was just he wanted out of Calgary, maybe it was out of Canada, or maybe just out of the west. And maybe because he wanted less spotlight, maybe non of those.

Either way, he gave up a lot, as mentioned by you to hit his location criteria, so much, it's hard for the majority of us to even wrap our heads around it or understand it. But the fact that I can't understand it, doesn't make me think less of him. His priorities are his right, and if anything, I'd say it took some courage to make such an off the board decision.

But the reason I think it makes it hurt less, is that while I don't judge him for his choice, it does highlight to me, that from a pure hockey fan perspective, that his priority list likely isn't one that is going to make winning with him as your key player very likely. He forgo a couple of locations (NJ and CGY) that I think most would argue would have a better chance of turning into a winner. He gave up on the chance to be a historic player with a franchise. These aren't decisions someone who has a burning desire to win and achieve in their profession makes.

It doesn't make him a bad person, or even lacking in courage. It does mean that I am more likely to believe, winning isn't high enough on his priority list to build a team around him. Maybe that's wrong.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

Ummmm no. Maybe, maybe, the BJs with Gaudreau would be comparable to the Flames pre Sutter. I still don’t think so. But in any case, that Flames team wasn’t very good.

Last year’s Sutter team? Give me a break.

Flames had an amazing season but it's unclear if that was actually sustainable.

A lot went right for the team last season, including for our top line.

They had a 12.4% on ice shooting percentage together, and a 105% PDO. There was going to be regression in their stats anyways.

Gaudreau wasn't likely to repeat that 115 point performance IMO - it was a 15% improvement over his previous career best.

This team had a great first season under Peters too, then were back down to earth the next year.

I don't know if this was truly a consistent 110 point team like a Colorado or a Tampa, or if they would have reverted back to a 95-100 point team that's battling for a playoff spot.

Honestly I think it was the latter.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

In your opinion he did.

Columbus with Gaudreau has just as good a chance at playoff success as the Flames with Gaudreau.

I guess maybe he sacrificed his "legacy" in Calgary but honestly I'm not sure how much that's really worth. He could go on and spend the next 8 years in Columbus win a cup and have an amazing legacy there too.

Does having a legacy in Calgary really change Jarome Iginla's life at all...doubtful.

All we can say that he sacrificed for certain was money - he left $15M of guaranteed money on the table - and that's a tough call for sure.

But I don't think that money really truly defines success in his career for him, if it did he would have just taken the largest contract.



Thinking that money and legacy is more important than what is best for your family is what's immature. And I'm not talking about his extended family because I don't think it came down to that.

He did what he thought was best for his wife, and their child that is on they way, and honestly it's the mature decision to prioritize that over money.

Its not about strictly money. Its your goals and your passion. The things you as an individual wanted to achieve as a kid who became an athlete. Also how you deal with those things (being forthright and professional).

He took a discount on that front yesterday. Also a discount in dollars.

I get what you're saying about family, you're not wrong, but you're also not quite seeing what we're getting at from this perspective either.

But that's okay. It's fine to have different viewpoints.

It's good that you're discussing/debating it rationally and I respect that.

[Heavy Jack]

Hey it’s not that I don’t like that he didn’t pick us; it’s that with how the negotiations went he seemed he would pick us all the way up until the 11th hour. It’s a big miss on management for not picking up on this sooner and it’s disingenuous from the player to say all the right things including ‘hopefully Calgary is stuck with me for 8 more years’ at his end of year presser. But hey, let’s be happy for the guy and not #### on him for setting the flames back with how his agent and himself handled all this. He can go pound sand as far as I’m concerned, hope it ends up being a Columbust for him and he’s a buyout candidate in the back half of that hilariously bad contract with no bonuses.

[Cappy]

So Johnny is immature and not a real man because he potentially considered his wife's and his family's interests when making a career decision?

WTF is this thread?

How can we say Johnny made a bad career decision? What are the chances Calgary remains a contender over the next 8 years of his deal vs Columbus?

[The Yen Man]

WTH does "being a man" have to do with anything in this situation? Seems like a useless attempt at degrading a person because you're angry with them.

[Gaskal]

Man that makes no sense.

Newark isn't metro Philly but it's pretty much the next closest thing. Like comparing Red Deer to Calgary distance.

If he had the option to go home for a difference of under $15 million total and didn't, it sure sounds like Gross flubbed this by not letting him know that there was a good offer from the Devils on the table.

But on the other hand if he was in the know it really makes me think he doesn't care about winning and that he just wants to avoid the spotlight, period. And if he goes to NJ there is pressure to make the playoffs and the spotlight would still follow him around, maybe not as intensely as a Canada team but still up there.

[Playfair]

Originally Posted by DinnerDog

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your point, but I think what the fanbase is struggling with is seeing how this is the best thing for his family, leaving money on the table and not being directly, or as close as possible to 'home'.

Maybe simply living in the States is in their mind better? As hard as it is for us poor people to understand, leaving money like that in the table may be what is best if it makes his family happy to live somewhere they all want to be

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Don't pile on djsFlames. It was my comment.

He's not my definition of a man. If that's narrow and ignorant, I accept that.

But just look at the last 48 hours.

It's been said here. He's lost money, lost term, lost legacy, lost a chance at a cup. He might lose more money because there's no signing bonus, no front loading. He just can't think for himself. He's immature.

This is a bit of a leap

[Boreal]

It is impressive how Gaudreau magically shifted his Flames legacy from trending towards Iginla towards Kristian Huselius.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Naw he started with this stuff yesterday and has now double downed.

It would be less sad if yesterday was the first time he posted some bizarre take about women or being a man.

His version of women is just little boxes full of hormones that love tubs of chocolate ice cream as treats for cleaning the house. And his version of being a man is just a fantasy to make single childless weirdos feel better about their lives. Not that there’s anything wrong with being single or childless, live your dream! But there is a weird type of guy who blames society and just projects his inadequacies as admirable traits instead of self reflecting at all. It’s why they deliver dumb takes and immediately blame “political correctness” and literally everyone else for finding them dumb.

He can double down all he wants, but people should rest easy knowing the source. His comments are so sad they’re funny.

[Stud_McCool]

Johnny received some bad advice

[iggyloob12]

Originally Posted by Boreal

It is impressive how Gaudreau magically shifted his Flames legacy from trending towards Iginla towards Kristian Huselius.

I got no beefs with Juice.

[Sylvanfan]

Columbus has had 5 first round picks in the past 2 drafts and 4 of those being top 12. They did finish 18 points ahead of the Devils. Plus the Devils are already an undersized team before Gaudreau. He may feel Columbus is better positioned to compete than the Devils are.

It still a bit of an odd choice. But it's done, and time to move on.

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

LeBrun sort of confirms this in an article this morning

I'm actually really happy the agent screwed up on the deal - CBJ instead of NJD!

[Hot_Flatus]

Something will eventually come out about this mess and I won't be surprised at all if a huge rift is revealed behind the scenes. Nothing else adds up. Even if the UFA market collapsed as it did, why wouldn't he simply go back to Calgary at that point on a 7 year deal that was more lucrative and with a much more competitive franchise? It's possible he just doesn't like Calgary, the weather and penchant for the team to fall flat every other year but Columbus is far worse with all of the above aside from the weather.

There's bad blood in the water for sure. Nothing else explains this all coming to a head the 11th hour versus both parties figuring out where they were at days or weeks prior to the deadline.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I'm not talking about those things. Lack of character maybe but he can be dishonest and weasely all he wants. I'm talking about drive and commitment to your career.

We're talking about a man, in any profession, being the best possible in that profession. And I'm not even talking about gender or power dynamics. If the woman was a top CEO and the man was a stay at home dad taking care of kids, then he has the be the best he can be in his profession, being a stay at home dad.

Again, that might be a narrow definition.

Who says he's not trying to be the best? Maybe he's frustrated at the lack of success in Calgary and wants a clean slate. Maybe he's challenging himself to be better by taking on a riskier path. Maybe he sees a better trajectory. Sure Calgary looks like the better bet in the short term but maybe there is something holding the team back. None of us know.

BTW I'm curious what your definition of a real woman is, but maybe for a different thread.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by edslunch

Who says he's not trying to be the best? Maybe he's frustrated at the lack of success in Calgary and wants a clean slate. Maybe he's challenging himself to be better by taking on a riskier path. Maybe he sees a better trajectory. Sure Calgary looks like the better bet in the short term but maybe there is something holding the team back. None of us know.

BTW I'm curious what your definition of a real woman is, but maybe for a different thread.

Your turn to take a bit of a leap. COLUMBUS!?

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Its not about strictly money. Its your goals and your passion. The things you as an individual wanted to achieve as a kid who became an athlete. Also how you deal with those things (being forthright and professional).

He took a discount on that front yesterday. Also a discount in dollars.

I get what you're saying about family, you're not wrong, but you're also not quite seeing what we're getting at from this perspective either.

But that's okay. It's fine to have different viewpoints.

It's good that you're discussing/debating it rationally and I respect that.

How do we know what Gauderau wanted as a kid?

I think he likely wanted to be an NHLer, he probably wanted to be a Philadelphia Flyer (which is why I think he goes to UFA to start with and his agent had bad intel), and he probably wanted to win a cup.

I don't think having a legacy as a Calgary Flame was ever on his list growing up. And well he likely did have a slightly better chance winning a cup in Calgary if he re-signs I'm actually not sure how substantial of a difference it truly is.

I actually think that Cleveland Steam Whistle has the right positioning of what you guys are trying to get across but does it in a much better way.

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

But the reason I think it makes it hurt less, is that while I don't judge him for his choice, it does highlight to me, that from a pure hockey fan perspective, that his priority list likely isn't one that is going to make winning with him as your key player very likely. He forgo a couple of locations (NJ and CGY) that I think most would argue would have a better chance of turning into a winner. He gave up on the chance to be a historic player with a franchise. These aren't decisions someone who has a burning desire to win and achieve in their profession makes.

It doesn't make him a bad person, or even lacking in courage. It does mean that I am more likely to believe, winning isn't high enough on his priority list to build a team around him. Maybe that's wrong.

Gaudreau made almost the toughest decision in a way.

He passed on money. He passed on being a historic lifetime Flame. And he went to a place that everyone laughed at as a suggestion when it was brought up Friday morning.

While I don't agree with his decision to go there I don't think this decision means he was less of a "man".

What I do think though and CSW probably put it best is that "winning isn't high enough on his priority list", and because of that I'm not as sad that we don't have his 8 year and $10.5M contract on our books today.

I still think he probably got some bad guidance here from his agent and that the market for him was a lot softer than they were expecting. I think they thought that they would be getting $11 x 7 from one of NJ, PHI, BOS, or NYI, and Gross completely misread the situation.

In the end I think he was set on Philly, they didn't even come close to being able to meet his salary demands and weren't willing to make a bad trade to make the space, and he doesn't sound like they even made an offer. In the end he just went to the team that had the best offer on the day that was "closer" to home.

And my gut feeling is the bridge might have been burned with Edwards and the Flames by that point. I wonder how this plays out if the Flames did what the Oilers did with Kane and let Gaudreau talk to teams before free agency opened. Maybe he's still a Flame if he see's how soft the market was and realizes the best offer was here in Calgary.