Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[Daradon]

Man, if the world could draw borders before, why not now?

No new settlements. Area for both cultures.

I get this has failed 100 times over in history, but at this point, it cant get worse.

The way Israel ha behaved since the sixties makes me think they don't have the responsibilty to run this on their own. Make it an east-west Germany deal. Without the commie interference.

Split em up, your both on time out.

[Rerun]

Not all the deaths in Gaza are as a result of Israeli bombing. Hamas repeatedly lies and blames Israel even when Israel is not at fault.

http://virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=13693

Italian Reporter Reveals Hamas Cover-Up Over Misfired Rockets

An Italian journalist who until Tuesday was embedded in Gaza has backed the IDF's account of a rocket strike on a school playground in central Gaza's Shati refugee camp on Monday.

At least 10 people were killed in the attack - most of them children - and some sources claimed the death toll was as high as 30. Palestinian sources were quick to blame Israel, claiming that an Israeli fighter jet fired missiles directly at the playground and nearby hospital. Israel denied the accusations, saying that Hamas rockets aimed at Israel from the area misfired, and struck both the school and the hospital

... and then of course if anyone reports the truth...

Verifying facts on the ground in Gaza is notoriously difficult for foreign reporters, and even for Palestinian journalists seen as aligned with the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority, as journalists are closely watched by Hamas security forces and can face interrogation and a permanent ban from Gaza for publishing material deemed unfavorable to the territory's Islamist rulers. As such, little information has emerged on what exactly happened that day in Shati.

But returning from a stint in Gaza, and safe from what he ominously referred to as potential "Hamas retaliation", Italian journalist Gabriele Barbati broke the media silence by tweeting the following message, confirming that Hamas terrorists rushed to cover up evidence of what was indeed errant rocket fire aimed at Israel

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Man, if the world could draw borders before, why not now?

No new settlements. Area for both cultures.

I get this has failed 100 times over in history, but at this point, it cant get worse.

The way Israel ha behaved since the sixties makes me think they don't have the responsibilty to run this on their own. Make it an east-west Germany deal. Without the commie interference.

Split em up, your both on time out.

Israel has agreed to numerous partitions of territory over the years (most recently in 2000, 2005, 2008). Only one side continually rejects such proposals, usually by launching as many terrorist attacks against civilians as possible.

[taco.vidal]

All favouring Israel. So of course they,d be in agreement.

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Israel has agreed to numerous partitions of territory over the years (most recently in 2000, 2005, 2008). Only one side continually rejects such proposals, usually by launching as many terrorist attacks against civilians as possible.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Not all the deaths in Gaza are as a result of Israeli bombing. Hamas repeatedly lies and blames Israel even when Israel is not at fault.

http://virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=13693

... and then of course if anyone reports the truth...

Yeah, but international media generally sorts that out. They are not, obviously a mouth piece for Hamas or even Palestine. I'm not saying they always get it right. But that they tend to screw up reporting on both sides equally.

Pulling from a site called virtualjerusalem is obvious bias. Might as well go to Christian Science Monitor sites with pictures of humans riding dinos.

For you to even accuse a Palestinian bias in a pair of countries whose official policies are pro Israel is laughable.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

All favouring Israel. So of course they,d be in agreement.

When your stated goal is eradication of all of Israel, everything can be spun as "in favour of Israel". Somehow much of the world thought the deals were fair, or at least negotiable upon.

The point being Israel has been serious about peaceful resolution, and has been met with terrorism and violence at every turn.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

When your stated goal is eradication of all of Israel, everything can be spun as "in favour of Israel". Somehow much of the world thought the deals were fair, or at least negotiable upon.

The point being Israel has been serious about peaceful resolution, and has been met with terrorism and violence at every turn.

Gotta taje issue with the second sentance. They are serious about the negotiations and treaties, I agree. But then they go violate them with new settlements.

It's hard to accept the bargaining terms, when you've been bamboozled in the past.

[Zevo]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Not all the deaths in Gaza are as a result of Israeli bombing. Hamas repeatedly lies and blames Israel even when Israel is not at fault.

http://virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=13693

... and then of course if anyone reports the truth...

Not to mention how Hamas prevents civilians from leaving areas that Israel has warned are going to be targeted. Gotta up the civilian death count. International outrage is the only chance Hamas has.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Zevo

Not to mention how Hamas prevents civilians from leaving areas that Israel has warned are going to be targeted. Gotta up the civilian death count. International outrage is the only chance Hamas has.

Proof?

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Proof?

Proof of anything in this mess is hard to come by, but my oh my the smoke is thick coming off that possible fire.

[Zevo]

It's been widely reported and I've already posted links in this thread.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by Zevo

It's been widely reported and I've already posted links in this thread.

You might have to repost that one. From what I've heard, IDF is the only ones reporting that.

[Senator Clay Davis]

That anyone chooses to believe what either Israel or Hamas says is pretty laughable. They are both full of #### and will slant things their way, and both want some control of the information. For instance...

After the initial publication of this article, the military’s censor informed The New York Times that further information related to the apparently abducted soldier would have to be submitted for prior review. Journalists for foreign news organizations must agree in writing to the military censorship system to work in Israel. This was the first censorship notification The Times had received in more than two years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/02/wo...e-package&_r=1

Hamas likewise also will slant the truth or straight up lie, such as from the same article

Moussa Abu Marzouk, a senior official in the political wing of Hamas, the Islamic group that dominates Gaza, told the Turkish news media that Hamas had taken a soldier captive but claimed the event took place before the cease-fire began.

So to say one side is the truth and the other is crap is ridiculous. Not believing either is the way to go because neither side has any incentive to be honest. It's war after all.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Gotta taje issue with the second sentance. They are serious about the negotiations and treaties, I agree. But then they go violate them with new settlements.

It's hard to accept the bargaining terms, when you've been bamboozled in the past.

Israel has also removed settlements, so clearly they are willing to negotiate upon those as well. There's several hundred other issues we could discuss further.

Are you suggesting that terrorism/violence is justified because of land issues? That's how it reads to me. But I firmly believe violence is unacceptable in any situation, and one side continually resorts to this tactic regardless of any treaties or negotiations.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Israel has also removed settlements, so clearly they are willing to negotiate upon those as well. There's several hundred other issues we could discuss further.

Are you suggesting that terrorism/violence is justified because of land issues? That's how it reads to me. But I firmly believe violence is unacceptable in any situation, and one side continually resorts to this tactic regardless of any treaties or negotiations.

Terrorism is never justified. However, defending ones land rights is a story as old as time.

I would also argue, both sides are guilty of terrorism at this point.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Zevo

It's been widely reported and I've already posted links in this thread.

I just joined the discussion. Enlighten me? Possibly from neutral (far cry I know, but not obviously biased) sources.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Terrorism is never justified. However, defending ones land rights is a story as old as time.

I would also argue, both sides are guilty of terrorism at this point.

So just to be clear, you ARE saying that murdering civilians is the same as claiming disputed land?

I can't agree with that viewpoint in the slightest.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

So just to be clear, you ARE saying that murdering civilians is the same as claiming disputed land?

I can't agree with that viewpoint in the slightest.

So let me get you correct. Only one side has murdered civilians?

I can answer questions with questions too. But before I wait for your answer, one side has murdered far more civilians. Far more kids even.

How you feel you are right in this talking point is baffling at the least.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Israel has agreed to numerous partitions of territory over the years (most recently in 2000, 2005, 2008). Only one side continually rejects such proposals, usually by launching as many terrorist attacks against civilians as possible.

I think it was Abba Eban who said "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity."

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

A 3 day ceasefire was agreed to and broken within about 2 hours. With an IDF soldier having been abducted you can pretty much say goodbye to any chance of this ending soon. Israel will likely respond very harshly.

I was actually going to ask what the over/under was on Hamas breaking the ceasefire within 24 hours, but there wasn't even enough time to type it (not literally of course).